Sam Richardson Interview, date unknown

MARSHALL: Your middle name, Mister—

RICHARDSON: Asa.

MARSHALL: Ees?

RICHARDSON: Asa.

MARSHALL: Asa? A-S-A?

RICHARDSON: A-S-A.

MARSHALL: Mr. Samuel Asa Richardson.

RICHARDSON: Named after both my grandfathers. My mother’s father was Samuel, my father’s father was Asa.

MARSHALL: Oh! [Laughs] That’s nice. Uh, Mr., Mr. Richardson, you, you mentioned your mother’s father, tell me a little bit about your mother’s father, give me his full name and so forth. Your, your, your mother’s father first.

RICHARDSON: There’s nothing much I know about him

MARSHALL: Well, just—

RICHARDSON: Yeah, uh, he, he was a, a [goodly] man, uh, some

MARSHALL: [can I turn this off]

RICHARDSON: Yeah, oh, yeah, just [tuck] that off, please. Um, some white people, uh, brought him from the South,

MARSHALL: Mm-hmm.

RICHARDSON: using him for a houseboy up in Maine.

MARSHALL: Mm-hmm.

RICHARDSON: but, uh, he wasn’t a slave, they didn’t, [honest this] they didn’t treat him as a slave,

MARSHALL: Yeah.

RICHARDSON: they treated him as one of the family.

MARSHALL: Mm-hmm.

RICHARDSON: And, uh, he met a girl from Scotland, uh, McGuinness, her name was 1:00Margaret McGuinness, and his name was Samuel Bass. Uh, they moved down to, uh, uh, Chatham, Ontario.

MARSHALL: Oh, yeah.

RICHARDSON: Uh, and, uh, that’s where my mother was born, in Chatham Township.

MARSHALL: Mm-hmm.

RICHARDSON: Uh, I think they called it Charing Cross township.

MARSHALL: Yeah, yeah, mm-hmm.

RICHARDSON: Um, my father was born up in, uh, Dresden, Ontario.

MARSHALL: Oh, uh-huh.

RICHARDSON: That’s where Uncle Tom is buried.

MARSHALL: Yes, I went—we’ve been over there.

RICHARDSON: Have you?

MARSHALL: Uh-huh.

RICHARDSON: Uh-huh.

MARSHALL: Now your father’s name was

RICHARDSON: As—oh, my father, Joseph

MARSHALL: Joseph

RICHARDSON: Joseph Henry.

MARSHALL: Joseph Henry Richardson.

RICHARDSON: Yes. [Coughs] He was born there, but his father’s name was Asa, and [after hearsay]

MARSHALL: I see.

RICHARDSON: that’s how I got my

MARSHALL: Yeah, yeah.

RICHARDSON: middle name. So, uh, I had a lot of relatives up in the,

MARSHALL: over in that area,

RICHARDSON: in that area, uh-huh. So, uh, they came over, they, they, they, they put all their worldly belongings on a wagon

MARSHALL: Mm-hmm.

RICHARDSON: and the horses and the cows and the—

MARSHALL: Yeah.

RICHARDSON: At that time they didn’t need to have any, there was no one asking for, um visas, or anything

MARSHALL: Oh yeah, yeah.

RICHARDSON: People come over here any time they felt like it, y’know,

MARSHALL: Mm.

RICHARDSON: just across the border and nothing would happen

MARSHALL: Mm.

RICHARDSON: So, they had a ferry at that time.

MARSHALL: Mm-hmm.

RICHARDSON: So, they got on the ferry with this, they had, I think three or four cows,

MARSHALL: Mm-hmm.

RICHARDSON: and a team of horses and a, a, [sh—try, try, what do you call them], um, buggy horses

MARSHALL: Oh yeah, uh-huh.

RICHARDSON: They had a, and a, so, the kids all in, sitting in the wagon, [laughs] with all those mattresses

MARSHALL: Huh.

RICHARDSON: and things, y’know, six people would use to sleep in when they got over here,

MARSHALL: Uh-huh.

RICHARDSON: and they moved out here, they moved to Ypsilanti, and um, Second Avenue, they rented a place there, until they could, uh, they was, they, they were farmers,

MARSHALL: Mm-hmm.

RICHARDSON: and they wanted to get on the farm. So my dad and all of them, my grandfather, and, um, my dad being the oldest of the family he looked out for them here, he was acquainted, he'd been over here and back several times.

MARSHALL: Mm-hmm.

RICHARDSON: And, uh, they bought a farm out here at Merriman and uh, Hitchingham Road.

MARSHALL: Itchingham?

RICHARDSON: Hitchingham.

MARSHALL: Hitchingham.

RICHARDSON: Hitchingham, yes. And, uh, Merritt Road. Merritt lived on one corner 4:00and my grandfather lived on the other corner.

MARSHALL: Oh yeah, mm-hmm.

RICHARDSON: on the southwest, and, uh, side of the street.

MARSHALL: Uh-huh.

RICHARDSON: Well, they kept that farm for a long while, and Mr. Merritt, Merritt wanted to buy it from them, because, uh, he wanted to enlarge his, his, you know, the area around and through that…well, they sold out to him and bought two or three roads down this see what they called it [town] Judd Road. Corner of Judd and Hitchingham.

MARSHALL: Oh yeah.

RICHARDSON: And, uh, my uncle, he had, there was a little stretch, stretch in there, I guess about 20 acres,

MARSHALL: Mm-hmm.

RICHARDSON: that my uncle Dick bought, and, uh, it had a log cabin on it.

MARSHALL: Oh yeah.

RICHARDSON: But the house that my grandfather lived in was, uh, oh, maybe two or three hundred feet from his place.

MARSHALL: Oh yeah.

RICHARDSON: So they got together there and that’s where they stayed until he died.

MARSHALL: Mm-hmm.

RICHARDSON: Then my, had my grandmother to come to town, my dad did, and he bought a little place here for her, so she had nothing to worry about, [that] she had everything that she needed, and, so, that’s how they got to Ypsilanti.

MARSHALL: Now, you, you can, you can say that you just about lived your whole life right here.

RICHARDSON: Yeah, I was, I, I was only, well, I was a baby in arms when they brought me here.

MARSHALL: Yeah.

RICHARDSON: And this house right down here, that blue house there, that’s where we moved when I come to first come here.

MARSHALL: Oh, yeah?

RICHARDSON: [Laughs] So I’ve come right back to where I lived as a baby.

MARSHALL: Uh-huh.

RICHARDSON: Uh, he, he was, uh, building up on Monroe,

MARSHALL: Mm-hmm.

RICHARDSON: he had a house there that he built, when we, when we, when he got it finished so we could go in there, why, we moved from this place here.

MARSHALL: I see.

RICHARDSON: I heard him tell about how much it cost him to dig his basement. There were two men in Ypsi, they were only getting a dollar a day, and a dollar a day or whatever they [gave] people at that time

MARSHALL: Uh-huh.

RICHARDSON: and, uh, he paid, paid this fellow five dollars to dig it, and he got his brother-in-law to help him, and they dug that basement in a day’s time! Oh, they, they were, they were good workers. [Laughs]

MARSHALL: [Laughs] Yeah.

RICHARDSON: I remember his name, too, ah, guess I can’t think of it just…Dick, uh, Morton.

MARSHALL: Oh, uh-huh, uh-huh.

RICHARDSON: I guess you got him down.

MARSHALL: Yeah, well, that, that Morton family was one of the first families here.

RICHARDSON: Yeah, well, I think that he’s a little different Morton.

MARSHALL: Oh, it’s a different Morton.

RICHARDSON: Yeah, that’s uh, I know the Morton you’re thinking about. That’s John Morton and, uh, George.

MARSHALL: Yeah. Uh-huh.

RICHARDSON: But, uh, they were related to the Kerseys.

MARSHALL: Oh yeah, mm-hmm.

RICHARDSON: and uh, he was the finest carpenter you’d ever want to find, Old Man Morton.

MARSHALL: Uh-huh.

RICHARDSON: And he taught his sons the trade, and they were good carpenters, but they weren’t nothing like he was.

MARSHALL: Yeah.

RICHARDSON: He was known for building these beautiful stairways.

MARSHALL: Oh yeah.

RICHARDSON: And, uh, he and my father were quite good friends, and my father was a plasterer.

MARSHALL: Oh.

RICHARDSON: And so, he’d plaster after Mr. Morton would finish with [that]. He, I guess he plastered almost all these houses in Ypsi here

MARSHALL: Mm-hmm.

RICHARDSON: He and, uh, Mr. Mahaley.

MARSHALL: Oh, uh-huh.

RICHARDSON: Jerry Mahaley.

MARSHALL: Uh-huh.

RICHARDSON: Uh, and, they used to help each other, you know,

MARSHALL: Yeah.

RICHARDSON: they’d need help, why, one would have a job, the other didn’t, why, they’d switch back and forth, so that’s how people lived back in those days.

MARSHALL: Did you have brothers or sisters?

RICHARDSON: I had a sister.

MARSHALL: What was her name?

RICHARDSON: Uh, Mildred. Mildred Theora.

MARSHALL: Thee—

RICHARDSON: Theora.

MARSHALL: Theora.

RICHARDSON: Yes.

MARSHALL: Now, of course her name was Richardson at first, what—did she marry?

RICHARDSON: No, she died,

MARSHALL: Oh.

RICHARDSON: quite young.

MARSHALL: I see.

RICHARDSON: Uh, they had a flu epidemic. I guess people

MARSHALL: The one at the end of the World War?

RICHARDSON: Yes, uh-huh.

MARSHALL: Yeah, I almost, I almost went out with that one too.

RICHARDSON: I did too! I was, I was not [cloaked], pretty much.

MARSHALL: In fact, in fact,

[TAPE STOPPED, RESTARTED]

MARSHALL: Now, what—you told me this before, what year were you born?

RICHARDSON: I was born, um, February the 17th, 1900.

MARSHALL: 1900.

RICHARDSON: So that make me 81 years old.

MARSHALL: Now, I remember you, you were saying that before but I just wanted that for the record.

RICHARDSON: Oh, yes.

MARSHALL: Uh-huh, uh-huh. Now, uh, uh, let’s see, I guess you told me about your parents, now, and you told me about—tell me about your school days, growing up here.

RICHARDSON: Oh, uh, we went to the Adams Street School, it was called Adams Street,

MARSHALL: Yeah.

RICHARDSON: it’s over there next to the Methodist Church,

MARSHALL: Mm-hmm.

RICHARDSON: And, uh, they had four grades there, uh, little colored woman Ms. Wise taught the first and second grade,

MARSHALL: Oh yeah, uh-huh.

RICHARDSON: and Ms. Alexander taught the third and fourth grade.

MARSHALL: Uh-huh.

RICHARDSON: No, for a while it didn’t have Ms. Alexander, uh, I mean Mrs. um,

MARSHALL: Wise.

RICHARDSON: Wise, there, and Mrs. Alexander taught the whole four grades.

MARSHALL: Oh, mm-hmm, mm-hmm.

RICHARDSON: When we finished there we went to the Woodruff school,

MARSHALL: Oh, yeah.

RICHARDSON: and, uh, I think we spent 2 years over there.

MARSHALL: Mm-hmm.

RICHARDSON: or three, three years I guess, for seventh grade we went to high—[ 10:00] what you call it, considered high school, they call it high school at that time, but that was the central school

MARSHALL: Yeah.

RICHARDSON: up there.

MARSHALL: That’s the one down here, the old school, the old high school down here

RICHARDSON: Yes, on the corner of Cross, Cross and, uh, Washington.

MARSHALL: Right, mm-hmm.

RICHARDSON: Now, there was an old building there at that time, [what in] in the meantime they were building this new one.

MARSHALL: Oh, I see.

RICHARDSON: That would be the old high school, they call it old now.

MARSHALL: Mm-hmm. What, um, what, um,

RICHARDSON: Then, uh, I rea—after I finished high school there, I went to the Normal, call it Normal at

MARSHALL: Right.

RICHARDSON: that time, it’s EMU now,

MARSHALL: Mm-hmm.

RICHARDSON: and um, I spent, uh, almost 2 years there, but then I had a chance to, uh, take this apprenticeship.

MARSHALL: Mm-hmm.

RICHARDSON: So I quit school, and, uh, took that, and I, when I finished my apprenticeship, uh, they had a, a funeral directors in the state of Michigan,

MARSHALL: Mm-hmm.

RICHARDSON: use the, the University of Michigan to um, to teach mortuary science,

MARSHALL: Oh yeah.

RICHARDSON: Yes. So we spent a summer up there, they paid fifty dollars for us, and we had to pay fifty dollars. I think it cost a hundred dollars to take the class.

MARSHALL: Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.

RICHARDSON: So we had almost all the classes that a doctor would have.

MARSHALL: Mm-hmm.

RICHARDSON: but, uh, didn’t, y’know, on a smaller scale.

MARSHALL: Mm-hmm. Now when you, when you, when you, uh, decided to, to, to, become a, to take mortuary science, were there any other Negro, um, uh, mor—morticians around? Before that they just went to—

RICHARDSON: No, I think [ ] another fellow and myself, one fellow in Flint and myself, were the first two in the other, other state,

MARSHALL: Oh yeah.

RICHARDSON: there’s a lot of them in Detroit, but, uh,

MARSHALL: And before that time, white folks took care of them?

RICHARDSON: White folks took care of them, yes, uh-huh. That’s how I got my apprenticeship, was through a white funeral director.

MARSHALL: What year’d you open up your business?

RICHARDSON: Uh, in 1924.

MARSHALL: 1924.

RICHARDSON: Uh, fifties, in 1974, the boys um, went, [had to], uh, give me a recognition ceremony up there in Grand Rapids, and, uh, so, uh, I had my 50th year in 1974, so I’ve taken on six more years

MARSHALL: [Laughs]

RICHARDSON: I still have my license, I have a pin that I [ ]

MARSHALL: Okay.

[TAPE STOPPED, RESTARTED]

RICHARDSON: we, uh, I got her a license so that if she, anything happened to me, y’know, why, she’d be able to take, follow through and have—take care of the family that way

MARSHALL: Mm-hmm.

RICHARDSON: And she wouldn’t have it that way, she wanted the business. [Laughs] And we couldn’t get along, and squabbled about that, and [ ] about this, and

MARSHALL: Mm-hmm.

RICHARDSON: I wouldn’t—she didn't want any partnership, wouldn’t go into partnership with me, we were already in a partnership [laughs]

MARSHALL: Mm-hmm, mm-hmm, mm-hmm. Now when you first,

RICHARDSON: So…

MARSHALL: when you married, ’cause you were in business,

RICHARDSON: Yes.

MARSHALL: And she was in business, too.

RICHARDSON: No, no, no.

MARSHALL: Oh, I see. She came into business with you.

RICHARDSON: Yes, uh-huh.

MARSHALL: I see. And then after your breakup, then what happened?

RICHARDSON: Well, she, um, took over the [ ]

MARSHALL: [ ]

RICHARDSON: Yes. Uh-huh. She’d [coat], that is, Judge, uh, Breakey told her that she could operate in my place.

MARSHALL: I see.

RICHARDSON: Well, I, when I’d get a call why, she wouldn’t, she’d insult the people, do everything, you know, to, and now she’d talk sweet to them if they would, if she could get the business

MARSHALL: Mm-hmm.

RICHARDSON: If she couldn't get the business, well, then, she’d insult them, you know, all like that, oh, she was terrible. So, uh, I uh, decided I couldn’t live like that so, we, she, she applied for a divorce, they had a minister here, that was pushing her, you know,

MARSHALL: Mm-hmm.

RICHARDSON: this…uh, anyhow [laughs]. But he was known for that. He was a 15:00woman’s man, y’know.

MARSHALL: Mm-hmm.

RICHARDSON: And he had all these old sisters, you know,

MARSHALL: [Laughs]

RICHARDSON: and every night in the week my wife would be out there, doing over there, you know, they were talking, I know all sorts of things, because the way it worked out, y’know, you could tell how it was, that he had encouraging her, and, uh, help have, uh, helping her to get the business from me.

MARSHALL: Mm-hmm.

RICHARDSON: So, uh, well, she had me in court, there, for, I wouldn’t sign off, which, ’cause I, she, y’know, told a lie to get the divorce, and they wouldn’t give her the divorce until I signed off.

MARSHALL: Mm-hmm.

RICHARDSON: And I wouldn’t sign, there, for five years.

MARSHALL: Mm-hmm.

RICHARDSON: And he just let her stay in there, and stay, and got so that people didn’t know me, anymore, they lost track of me.

MARSHALL: Yeah.

RICHARDSON: That is, the new people who come in here.

MARSHALL: Yeah, yeah.

RICHARDSON: that, during that time, why,

MARSHALL: Mm-hmm.

RICHARDSON: that was during the war,

MARSHALL: Mm-hmm.

RICHARDSON: and they put the bomber plant out here. Well, uh, well, when she, uh, we had to move her out of there because it was my parents’ property,

MARSHALL: Oh yeah, I see.

RICHARDSON: and I moved her in there y’know, just to,

MARSHALL: Mm-hmm.

RICHARDSON: we were first married,

MARSHALL: Mm-hmm.

RICHARDSON: So, she um, tried to get the place and she couldn’t get it. So, judge, this judge, would have let her stay in there another five years if he had wanted to, I guess.

MARSHALL: Mm-hmm.

RICHARDSON: But, uh, she took it to, she lost to him, that’s how it was, under some conditions.

MARSHALL: Mm-hmm.

RICHARDSON: So they, um, she took it to the Sup—er, Mich—Michigan Supreme Court.

MARSHALL: Oh, mm-hmm.

RICHARDSON: But they threw her out, third day! [Laughs] Had no business in there in the first day.

MARSHALL: Uh-huh, uh-huh.

RICHARDSON: So she moved around from place to place. She was building this 17:00house, this place in the meantime.

MARSHALL: Oh, uh-huh.

RICHARDSON: [Shirley] was building the place, and she lived up on George Walls and um, his brother. And then people just kept dying fast, oh, all these people coming in there are dying like flies.

MARSHALL: Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.

RICHARDSON: And she did a wonderful business, see, she didn’t have any competition. I wouldn’t, I wouldn’t compete against her.

MARSHALL: Mm-hmm.

RICHARDSON: So I let her get away with it, but, after she got out, why, then, well, I moved to Detroit.

MARSHALL: Oh, yeah.

RICHARDSON: Yeah. And I got away from here. And I opened up a place down there. And, um, I had a partner. This partner didn't have any license.

MARSHALL: Oh, uh-huh.

RICHARDSON: He was just a man who was, worked at the morgue.

MARSHALL: Oh, uh-huh.

RICHARDSON: He could get all those cases at the morgue.

MARSHALL: Yeah. Mm-hmm.

RICHARDSON: So I thought it was a pretty good opportunity.

MARSHALL: Mm-hmm.

RICHARDSON: join with him. So he started putting his name down as funeral director, and [ ] had me in jail! [Laughs] He was posing as a funeral director.

MARSHALL: Uh-huh.

RICHARDSON: Is this on?

MARSHALL: No.

RICHARDSON: No, I thought not. I don’t like to talk gossip, you know.

MARSHALL: No, no, I turned it off. So now tell me this—there’s one thing that I need to get straight in my mind, because I don’t know, I’ve never asked anybody these things, but now, uh, uh, uh, Bud’s name is Davis

RICHARDSON: Yes.

MARSHALL: Now she was married to Davis before she was married to you.

RICHARDSON: [Clarence] Davis, yes.

MARSHALL: I see.

RICHARDSON: She had four children by him.

MARSHALL: Okay. That would be Bud, and Nonie, and Paul.

RICHARDSON: and, uh, Clarence.

MARSHALL: Clarence. Clarence is one I don’t know.

RICHARDSON: Yeah, he died.

MARSHALL: Oh, I see.

RICHARDSON: That is, he was killed down in Puerto Rico. He was a seaman, one of these, uh,

MARSHALL: Oh. A sailor?

RICHARDSON: Yeah.

MARSHALL: Now she has, what, any other children?

RICHARDSON: Well, uh, we had two children.

MARSHALL: Oh, I see.

RICHARDSON: Uh, Joe, I guess you know him, he has a store up here on the corner, of, uh, Washington and

MARSHALL: [This I need to] put it down. Thought I told you I had cut that off. I’ll cut it. I’ll cut it. Um, you got a son? Named Joe?

RICHARDSON: Joe. He has a store up here on point where Washington and Huron meet, just at the top of the hill, on Harriet Street.

MARSHALL: Yeah?

RICHARDSON: That’s called Spring Street when it comes down this way, but it’s Harriet from—

MARSHALL: Where Harriet and Washington meet?

RICHARDSON: Yeah, mm-hmm. Harriet and Washington

MARSHALL: The—the liquor store?

RICHARDSON: The liquor store.

MARSHALL: Oh, uh-huh. I didn’t—

RICHARDSON: He has a liquor store.

MARSHALL: Oh. I don’t know him. I, I probably have met him, but I don’t know him.

RICHARDSON: No. And then I have another one, Clement, his name was Clement.

MARSHALL: Oh, I see.

RICHARDSON: No, he died here twelve, fifteen years ago.

MARSHALL: Were there any other children?

RICHARDSON: No, just the two, I had two children.

MARSHALL: Well, that’s interesting, I mean, these are things I just didn’t know.

RICHARDSON: No, no.

MARSHALL: Now after, after you and she divorced, did she marry again?

RICHARDSON: Yes, she married um, Clement Mills, uh, from Detroit. He was a postal man, he worked for the post office,

MARSHALL: Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.

RICHARDSON: I don’t know him. Fairly good job out here, I don’t know too much about him.

MARSHALL: Well, see, when I got here all I knew was that there was a Lucille, 21:00and then we got to know Nonie, and later I got to know Bud,

RICHARDSON: Yeah.

MARSHALL: and just recently I got to know Paul.

RICHARDSON: Oh yeah, yeah.

MARSHALL: In fact I knew Paul for a year before I ever knew he was Bud’s brother.

RICHARDSON: Oh yeah. [Laughs] Well, he, he, probably went by ‘Bird,’ his aunt, uh, adopted him when we were married.

MARSHALL: Oh, Paul.

RICHARDSON: Paul.

MARSHALL: Oh, yes.

RICHARDSON: Well, I guess he, he changed it back to Davis.

MARSHALL: Yeah, he’s going by Davis now, and when I met him. Paul’s in the Rotary Club.

RICHARDSON: Oh yeah, yeah.

MARSHALL: There’s where I got to know him. He joined Rotary Club I guess two, three years ago.

RICHARDSON: Oh yeah.

MARSHALL: And, I met him there, but I still hadn’t connected him up with Bud, until one year, one day about less than a year ago, he brought Bud to a meeting as his guest,

RICHARDSON: Oh yeah.

MARSHALL: and that’s when I found out that they were brothers. [Laughs]

RICHARDSON: I see. Uh-huh. [Yes, we]

MARSHALL: Now all this time we’re talking about, we’re talking about some pretty interesting times, when it comes to

RICHARDSON: Oh yes.

MARSHALL: folks in, around Ypsilanti.

RICHARDSON: It was called ‘Little Chicago’ then.

MARSHALL: Little Chicago.

RICHARDSON: [Laughs]

MARSHALL: Uh,

RICHARDSON: Had everything going here.

MARSHALL: There’s a woman who’s the owner, asked you about a woman who lives over, well, whose home is over here on, uh, Adams Street, down below the church, and she, her daughter lives in the house now, and her daughter is married to a fellow by the name of Nickleson.

RICHARDSON: Dennis.

MARSHALL: Dennis. Tell me, who was, who was Mrs. Dennis?

RICHARDSON: Uh, she came here fr—she was, she and Mr. Dennis, I think he’s from Tennessee,

MARSHALL: Uh-huh.

RICHARDSON: and she was from Virginia. They married and lived over in, uh, Bay City for a long time.

MARSHALL: Mm-hmm.

RICHARDSON: When we first met them, my dad had some lots on, uh, Hu—on uh, on Adams Street, there. And they bought I think four lots from him, and there was a builder here at that time, Cooper, and he built this beautiful big home for, uh, for himself, I think, I think he probably had it in mind to sell it.

MARSHALL: Uh-huh.

RICHARDSON: Anyhow, why, no, I guess she did build a [ ], well she sold the lots to him and then bought them back, or how it was,

MARSHALL: Mm-hmm.

RICHARDSON: but anyhow she got the property and um, she had three children, two of them were born here, she had one when she came here from Bay City,

MARSHALL: Mm-hmm.

RICHARDSON: but Anna, her daughter, was born here, and Sonny we called him, I can’t think of his name now. And…

MARSHALL: Well, how did she make her money, what money she may have, they may have had?

RICHARDSON: Oh, uh, she had

MARSHALL: Property? I mean,

RICHARDSON: she, she kept roomers in Bay City, and she had a large house over there.

MARSHALL: I see.

RICHARDSON: And this was a [quite] large house here, so she used the same tactics and, uh,

MARSHALL: You, you know what makes me ask that question? I’ve been to their house down to Iowa.

RICHARDSON: Oh have you, yeah, yeah.

MARSHALL: And that’s a pretty, it was at least once upon a time, a pretty nice place.

RICHARDSON: Oh yeah, yeah, yeah.

MARSHALL: Now, it’s kind of run-down now.

RICHARDSON: Yeah, yeah.

MARSHALL: And I’ve been to the house here.

RICHARDSON: Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.

MARSHALL: ’Cause I know this daughter’s husband.

RICHARDSON: Oh yes.

MARSHALL: But I didn’t want to ask her anything. I just wondered who Mrs., everybody seemed to know Mrs. Dennis,

RICHARDSON: Mm-hmm.

MARSHALL: but nobody ever told me…

RICHARDSON: Well, no,

MARSHALL: Yeah.

RICHARDSON: well, she had so many different rumors, she had a house that was full of rumors,

MARSHALL: Of course they still make their money that way.

RICHARDSON: Yeah.

MARSHALL: She has all that place out back there,

RICHARDSON: Yeah. and then she has property on, y’know, other places in town,

MARSHALL: Yeah, mm-hmm,

RICHARDSON: so they, uh, they were ver—quite prosperous.

MARSHALL: Mm-hmm.

RICHARDSON: Mr. Dennis worked on a railroad.

MARSHALL: Oh, uh-huh.

RICHARDSON: With the president of the Michigan Central Railroad, I guess, or something like that, anyhow, he was, had a, had a very select job.

MARSHALL: Uh-huh, uh-huh. I, I just wondered. I wondered about that. Now you mentioned, you mentioned a, one thing on this house that you were talking about over here, we need to go over there and get a picture of that house,

RICHARDSON: Oh, the first funeral home.

MARSHALL: Yeah. The whole the first house you lived in

RICHARDSON: Yeah, the funeral home, was that what you mean?

MARSHALL: You’re pointing this way, maybe you mean to point that way.

RICHARDSON: Yeah, yeah. That’s on that side of, that’s on the west side of the street.

MARSHALL: What—do you remember the house number?

RICHARDSON: Four eighteen.

MARSHALL: Four eighteen, good.

RICHARDSON: Yeah.

MARSHALL: Want to go by and take a picture of that, because I want to show 26:00somebody the old homes.

RICHARDSON: Oh, yes.

MARSHALL: Yes. I want to show

RICHARDSON: My mother and father’s place is next door to it.

MARSHALL: Oh, I see, uh-huh. That would be four twenty?

RICHARDSON: Four sixteen.

MARSHALL: Four sixteen, uh-huh.

RICHARDSON: Four twenty uh, is a, apartment house.

MARSHALL: Oh, I see.

RICHARDSON: Six apartments are up there. I, um, rented to a fellow from Florida and he, he was angry at the fellow, the other fellow was angry with him because he wouldn’t let him stay in his place this night, so he set the house afire, burned the apartment house down.

MARSHALL: Isn’t that something?

RICHARDSON: Yeah. And then went to the police station and told them he burned it down.

MARSHALL: Isn’t that something.

RICHARDSON: Two people were, uh, burned to death. Not burned, I don’t suppose, but, uh, suffocated, in the place there. Two died, at least.

MARSHALL: Uh-huh. Huh.

RICHARDSON: So they, he, he’s in jail I guess for probably life.

MARSHALL: Yeah. Yeah.

RICHARDSON: Because he, he burned his mother’s home up, he burned up a trailer down here, on a, just a short distance from where we live here now,

MARSHALL: Huh. Huh.

RICHARDSON: He was, he has a, a [boat] for sure.

MARSHALL: [Laughs]

RICHARDSON: Pyromaniac

MARSHALL: Ah, shoot. During, during, during, during this particular time of course, you must have seen a lot of things, but one of the things I suspect you saw were several efforts by Negroes to start businesses of various kinds.

RICHARDSON: Oh yes. Harry Newton had a grocery store, he did a fine business. Meat market and, and um, um, ice cream parlor, grocery store.

MARSHALL: Was that on Harriet?

RICHARDSON: No, that was on, uh, Monroe.

MARSHALL: Monroe.

RICHARDSON: Monroe, yes.

MARSHALL: Monroe and where?

RICHARDSON: That would be Harr—uh, Huron Street.

MARSHALL: Monroe and Huron.

RICHARDSON: But Huron, um, had to, it’s all turned up now, y’know, all that area in there. And, uh, they’re going to put up a big apartment house there, or hotel or something.

MARSHALL: Oh, I see, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, In other words, yeah, yeah, I know what you’re talking about, uh-huh.

RICHARDSON: So, I worked for him when he was in business there. And then he went out of business, and he worked for me! [Laughs] I had this apartment house, and I was doing it over, and I completely renovated the whole thing, new everything in it, um, and he has a son living now.

MARSHALL: Yeah, [A.T. New].

RICHARDSON: Yeah.

MARSHALL: Yeah, uh-huh.

RICHARDSON: Encie.

MARSHALL: Encie, Encie, yeah. Uh, did you know Solomon Bow?

RICHARDSON: Oh yes.

MARSHALL: Egbert Bow?

RICHARDSON: Yes.

MARSHALL: Now, when you knew him, he was in the house-moving business.

RICHARDSON: That’s right. Then he had um, a number of lots, Sol did, all over Ypsi and he had, um, and each of these lots, they raised tobacco here at that time, he had two, two, uh, tobacco houses, one on either side of the driveway where I lived, and uh, where this apartment house was.

MARSHALL: Yeah.

RICHARDSON: Then he had a barn for the horses and all, so there was a lot of buildings on that, two or three lots, there, so…

MARSHALL: Well, of course, I don’t know if I told you this or not, but you know, back around 1880 Solomon Bow had a grocery store.

RICHARDSON: Yeah, that’s what I understand, I think you told me that. I didn’t know that.

MARSHALL: Yeah.

RICHARDSON: But I know they had a bakery shop there. In this big house where he lived.

MARSHALL: Yeah.

RICHARDSON: And Mrs. Smith, a sister to his wife, Frank Smith’s mother, he work—he worked, Frank worked for Claudius he was a candy maker.

MARSHALL: Oh, mm-hmm.

RICHARDSON: Yeah, Sol, um, lived there until he died and then, um, his uh, son in Buffalo, New York, his uncle, uh, um, Egbert Bow, and my father bought the house from him

MARSHALL: Oh, uh-huh.

RICHARDSON: And his equipment, all of the equipment, then Egbert and my father went into the house-moving business.

MARSHALL: Oh, I see.

RICHARDSON: So they, they, they moved a lot of houses. And my dad bought a lot of lots up on, uh, Jefferson and, uh, Madison. And people were building new 31:00homes and they’d be selling these old homes, and he’d find out where they were and buy them

MARSHALL: Yeah, yeah.

RICHARDSON: and move them, up on these lots up on, uh, lot of those old houses up there on Madison.

MARSHALL: Oh yeah.

RICHARDSON: He moved up there, so. That’s—well, he was in the real estate business before that, but he didn’t have any license,

MARSHALL: Yeah, yeah, mm-hmm.

RICHARDSON: And, um,

MARSHALL: ’Course, they weren’t so strict back in those days, either..

RICHARDSON: No, no. George Hayes told him, “Why don’t you get your license?” He had a grocery store.

MARSHALL: Mm-hmm.

RICHARDSON: Mr. Hayes did, and, uh, he was a mayor here at one time, then his son-in-law was a mayor.

MARSHALL: Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.

RICHARDSON: And uh, so, he got, he and my dad got together and got a license and my dad is, that was years and years back

MARSHALL: And he became a licensed real estate

RICHARDSON: Yeah, a licensed real estate dealer.

MARSHALL: Now that means he was probably the first black one to practice here in Ypsi

RICHARDSON: but they had another one here that came on a little later he worked for, um, [Terry Binder scholars] Al Anderson

MARSHALL: Oh, yeah?

RICHARDSON: and Al was, um, he, he started that um, that business

MARSHALL: in, in real estate

RICHARDSON: Yeah. uh-huh. Yeah, he got around so much, he was in a, running contact with a, he had a better chance than my dad did because [Terry Binderscholars] was,

MARSHALL: Oh yeah.

RICHARDSON: he worked for them, he’d go out and get students all over the state of Michigan up north and all, north, went all over the state,

MARSHALL: Mm-hmm.

RICHARDSON: recruiting students, so, uh, he um, he was the second one,

MARSHALL: Mm-hmm.

RICHARDSON: and then, uh, Francois worked under him,

MARSHALL: Oh.

RICHARDSON: to get his license. People here who didn’t know, who came here 33:00later, and didn’t know all of this y’know, they thought that Francois was the first Negro who had a license but Francois was the third one.

MARSHALL: Yeah, yeah.

RICHARDSON: as far as I know. And you said that there was someone here before that, even.

MARSHALL: Well, I’m not sure about, I’m not, well, I’m talking about the lawyer but I’m not sure whether he was real estate or not.

RICHARDSON: Oh.

MARSHALL: I know he was insurance.

RICHARDSON: Oh yeah.

MARSHALL: But this is about 1880.

RICHARDSON: Oh, no, you were talking about 1834, 1844 or something.

MARSHALL: Not in real estate.

RICHARDSON: I thought you told me that.

MARSHALL: No, I’m sorry, I don’t, I don’t remember anybody in real estate.

RICHARDSON: I didn’t either.

MARSHALL: The only man I, the only man I know about, the only man I know about, no, I don’t know of any back in those days.

RICHARDSON: Mm-hmm.

MARSHALL: The first one I, I think the one I talked about was, was this guy Fox, Tom Fox, John Fox was a lawyer.

RICHARDSON: Oh, he was in Ann Arbor [ ].

MARSHALL: No, he was in Ypsilanti, he had an office right downtown in that old 34:00hotel, there on, on Michigan Avenue. That was back around 1880.

RICHARDSON: Mm-hmm.

MARSHALL: And he, but he died when he was 32 years old.

RICHARDSON: Oh, I didn’t know anything about that.

MARSHALL: And see, see, now I don’t, I think he, I, I don't know whether the Foxes that now live in Ann Arbor were related to him or not,

RICHARDSON: Mm-hmm.

MARSHALL: but I know he was, he, he had, been, he’d been raised here, and he was supposedly, according to this book, he was the first black man to graduate from the University of Michigan law school.

RICHARDSON: Oh, I think I read that.

MARSHALL: Yeah. And he was Fox.

RICHARDSON: Mm-hmm.

MARSHALL: And he was the first black lawyer to practice in the state of Michigan.

RICHARDSON: Mm-hmm.

MARSHALL: And, but he had his office right downtown. I know he had his office down there because the city directory shows his, shows him in practice,

RICHARDSON: Oh, I see.

MARSHALL: and the thing that interested me about it was the fact that he represented two insurance companies. And this was an age when black folks had a 35:00difficult time getting insurance.

RICHARDSON: Mm-hmm.

MARSHALL: And the thing I have not done yet is to go back and find out whether he was actually selling life insurance to black people,

RICHARDSON: Mm-hmm.

MARSHALL: because these were not black insurance companies. These were white—in fact, there were no black insurance companies in those days. In those days, blacks were getting their insurance through their lodges. [Laughs]

RICHARDSON: Yeah, that’s right.

MARSHALL: But that’s the only one I know about, other than that,

RICHARDSON: Mm-hmm.

MARSHALL: in real estate.

RICHARDSON: Oh yes. It’s just that I had a different idea.

MARSHALL: No, I, I, I, I don’t, I, I don’t think he dealt in real estate.

RICHARDSON: Mm-hmm.

MARSHALL: Least, I don't remember anything about it. But, um, no he's uh, he, he, he, he just popped out at me. And I, I didn’t know anything about it, and he just popped up at me, and he’s, uh, fact that his office was downtown and so forth, and I still would like to know a lot more about him than I have found out. But the fact that he died so young

RICHARDSON: Oh, yeah.

MARSHALL: and I don't even know what he died from.

RICHARDSON: Mm-hmm.

MARSHALL: I’d probably get the date and all that, when he died.

RICHARDSON: Oh, that could be found out go if you go to, at, uh, Lansing.

MARSHALL: Yeah. I, I can do that, and in fact, I’m planning to go to Lansing, but I just haven’t done it yet.

RICHARDSON: Mm-hmm.

MARSHALL: But, um, the, the, uh, other thing I want to know is—oh yeah, barbers!

RICHARDSON: Oh yeah.

MARSHALL: Now that was a thriving business once upon a time.

RICHARDSON: Uh-huh, yeah.

MARSHALL: And, and, then, and, tell me about the barbers, the barber, barber businesses that you remember.

RICHARDSON: Oh, uh, we had a barber here, um, his name was Hez Norris. Hez, Hezekiah I guess was probably his name, they called him Hez.

MARSHALL: Hez.

RICHARDSON: Hez Norris.

MARSHALL: Hezekiah Norris.

RICHARDSON: Yes, uh-huh.

MARSHALL: Where did he have his shop?

RICHARDSON: His shop was in, uh, alley behind Michigan Avenue.

MARSHALL: Oh. Now, was his, was his patrons primarily white or black?

RICHARDSON: Black,

MARSHALL: Uh-huh, uh-huh.

RICHARDSON: Yes. Ann Arbor was different.

MARSHALL: Yeah, uh-huh.

RICHARDSON: They had three or four black, um, barbers in Ann Arbor

MARSHALL: Mm-hmm.

RICHARDSON: who had barber shops.

MARSHALL: Mm.

RICHARDSON: I worked in one of them up there, his name was um, Ellsworth.

MARSHALL: Uh-huh.

RICHARDSON: Mm-hmm. Uh, well he, we boys in Ypsi would go up there and work on a Friday and Saturday all those white people come in there they sold [tough biggers] [Laughs]

MARSHALL: Oh yeah, yeah, yeah.

RICHARDSON: They let them wait till Friday or Saturday so they could get it done for Sunday, they get a shave for Sunday.

MARSHALL: Yeah, yeah, uh-huh.

RICHARDSON: and there was a Ellwood Knox, uh, Harry Starks, Bill Roper, myself, we all worked up there with this man.

MARSHALL: Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.

RICHARDSON: And there’s two, three others. There’s a Pope, who had a barber 38:00shop there all these people, they dealt with white people.

MARSHALL: Yeah, uh-huh.

RICHARDSON: Uh, then, um, years later, there was a Wyler Day came there from Canada, he was a barber and, um, Fletcher, uh,

MARSHALL: I’m trying to, I’m trying to hold you for a moment on Wyler Day because I know about Wyler Day, but I’ve been trying to place him in a manner of time span.

RICHARDSON: Mm-hmm.

MARSHALL: What time span would you say when he came here from Canada can you remember approximately when he came here?

RICHARDSON: I think he’d lived here a long time, but he had, uh, that’s where he was from.

MARSHALL: Oh, I see.

RICHARDSON: That’s what I meant to say.

MARSHALL: Uh-huh.

RICHARDSON: I don’t, I couldn’t tell you when he moved over here from Canada.

MARSHALL: I see, uh-huh. Well, just as far back as you know, he was here.

RICHARDSON: Yes, uh-huh, that’s when I first met him, when he was here.

MARSHALL: Well, reason I say that, I had put his, I had said, I have a lot of Days’ names,

RICHARDSON: Uh-huh.

MARSHALL: but I had him in business from about the turn of the century, somewhere around nineteen-five, nineteen-six, or seven.

RICHARDSON: Oh, is that right? I didn’t know what he done before he come here.

MARSHALL: No, that was here.

RICHARDSON: Oh no, no, Lord, no.

MARSHALL: He was not in business that early.

RICHARDSON: [Laughs] No, he come here in um, about nineteen-thirty.

MARSHALL: Oh, uh-huh. I see.

RICHARDSON: I’m not positive about that,

MARSHALL: Mm-hmm.

RICHARDSON: but I remember that, uh,

MARSHALL: Mm-hmm.

RICHARDSON: his nephew worked for me for a long time,

MARSHALL: Mm-hmm.

RICHARDSON: his mother died,

MARSHALL: Mm-hmm.

RICHARDSON: and she told me to look out for him

MARSHALL: Mm-hmm.

RICHARDSON: the father wasn’t too responsible a person.

MARSHALL: Mm-hmm.

RICHARDSON: and, uh, so, I just about raised this boy that he was, he was a big boy

MARSHALL: Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.

RICHARDSON: he was big and strong, healthy, and he could work, y’know, handle those bodies as if they were [laughs] toothpicks.

MARSHALL: Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.

RICHARDSON: And, uh, he worked with me, there, for twenty years or more.

MARSHALL: Mm-hmm.

RICHARDSON: So, I’d say, thirty.

MARSHALL: Around nineteen-thirty.

RICHARDSON: Nineteen-thirty.

MARSHALL: Mm-hmm. Now where was his shop located?

RICHARDSON: He had a house on, um, Monroe, uh, the third house from the corner, there was Harry Newton’s drug, uh, Harry Newton’s uh, pharm—

MARSHALL: I, I know what you mean.

RICHARDSON: Grocery store.

MARSHALL: Grocery store, yeah, uh-huh.

RICHARDSON: Then there was another house in there, John Sullivan, in Wyler Day’s place, third house from Huron Street, on, on, um, Monroe.

MARSHALL: On Monroe, mm-hmm. Well, the name, the name interests me for a number of reasons I was just interested in

RICHARDSON: I think he was related to some of those Days in Saline, you know, the Days up there?

MARSHALL: No, I don’t know about them, but I’ve seen this book

RICHARDSON: Several blacks up there in Saline at the time.

MARSHALL: Yeah, uh-huh, uh-huh. Uh—

RICHARDSON: There was a Fletcher here, he had a barber shop um, on Harriet Street, right across from the beer garden, Bill Mahaley’s beer garden.

MARSHALL: Oh yeah, uh-huh.

RICHARDSON: Um, he did a good business here for years, but he died, well, both of them died,

MARSHALL: Well, he died before I got here. I knew her.

RICHARDSON: Who?

MARSHALL: I knew Mrs. Mahaley. I think.

RICHARDSON: Oh yeah, I was speaking of this barber.

MARSHALL: Oh, oh, I see, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, mm-hmm.

RICHARDSON: Oh, you, uh,

MARSHALL: I knew Mrs. Mahaley.

RICHARDSON: But you didn’t know Bill

MARSHALL: But I didn’t know him.

RICHARDSON: No, no.

MARSHALL: Uh-huh. But she was a pretty old woman when I met her.

RICHARDSON: Oh yeah

MARSHALL: She died here about a year ago.

RICHARDSON: Not that long, just about a few weeks ago.

MARSHALL: Well, not too long ago.

RICHARDSON: Yeah.

MARSHALL: Yeah, uh-huh. Well, anyway, yeah, I knew her, but I never knew, I knew about him, but I never knew him. Tell me, tell me, uh, one bit of information if you can. Tell me about, uh, this Mr. Washington’s business.

RICHARDSON: He had a nice business on the corner, there,

MARSHALL: On the corner of Huron and—

RICHARDSON: No, no, on the corner of Hamilton and Harriet.

MARSHALL: Hamilton and Harriet.

RICHARDSON: Yes, uh-huh.

MARSHALL: Now, what kind of business did he have?

RICHARDSON: He had a grocery store and barber s—and, uh,

MARSHALL: ice cream?

RICHARDSON: grocery and uh, and um, butcher shop.

MARSHALL: Oh, uh-huh.

RICHARDSON: Now he did a good business. He and his brother were in business together, and um, I guess there was the whole fa—he got the whole family here.

MARSHALL: Yeah. I understand he came, came here from Arkansas, or some place?

RICHARDSON: Oklahoma.

MARSHALL: Yeah, Oklahoma, that’s right, yeah, yeah, yeah.

RICHARDSON: Yeah, he came here and, uh, he saw that his whole family come up here.

MARSHALL: Yeah.

ROBINSON: He was a captain in the army and during the CCC camp days, y’know, he had charge of up north the government there [stayed in the wood of] the CCC he was head of.

MARSHALL: But you know, he he he he interested me for another reason. You see, he, from Ok—when he left Oklahoma, he went to Lincoln University. That’s where I went to school.

RICHARDSON: Oh yeah.

MARSHALL: But he went ahead of me, ’cause he’s older than me.

RICHARDSON: Yeah.

MARSHALL: And then when I was at Lincoln, way up in the 50s, and I started working with the alumni association, and going through the files, I found him.

RICHARDSON: Yeah.

MARSHALL: That’s the first time I ever heard of Ypsilanti.

RICHARDSON: Oh, was it?

MARSHALL: And that was the time and I think the first thing I found out about him when I found him, and we had a little form that they filled out, and on this form, he wrote back and said he was a member of the school board.

RICHARDSON: Wait a minute, let’s see, what was it? Yeah, he was, he, he, he was in, he came here in politics,

MARSHALL: Yeah.

RICHARDSON: more or less.

MARSHALL: He was on the school board at one time, and he was on the city council at one time.

RICHARDSON: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

MARSHALL: But that’s the way I, I know about him,

RICHARDSON: Oh yes, yeah.

MARSHALL: ’cause when I got here, he was dead. [Laughs]

RICHARDSON: Yeah.

MARSHALL: But I did, I mean I do know his, so I know, know his wife, and I know his uh, his daughter Ometha

RICHARDSON: Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.

MARSHALL: and then this other child some name, anyway, the, the other child that he had,

RICHARDSON: Yeah.

MARSHALL: by supposedly somebody else,

RICHARDSON: Yeah.

MARSHALL: Ometha’s half-sister

RICHARDSON: Yes, uh-huh.

MARSHALL: I know her. Well, Ometha made us know,

RICHARDSON: Oh yeah, yeah.

MARSHALL: when she got married. But that’s part of the gossip that we don’t put on tape. [Laughs]

RICHARDSON: Sure, no, no, no, no, no, no, that’s, that’s right.

MARSHALL: Ah, shoot. Well, now,

RICHARDSON: They used to call them Amos ’n Andy.

MARSHALL: Yeah.

RICHARDSON: Um, they were on the council together, and they saw that they had the Harriet Street school back there they bought that land all back there from Carter

MARSHALL: Uh-huh.

RICHARDSON: Um, to, um, for playgrounds

MARSHALL: Uh-huh.

RICHARDSON: and sort of an amphitheater there at one time, it looked like,

MARSHALL: Uh-huh.

RICHARDSON: and they were having shows there, and such as that, y’know, people sit on these banks

MARSHALL: Uh-huh. [Laughs] Sure.

RICHARDSON: So they called them Amos ’n Andy.

MARSHALL: Amos ’n Andy. [Laughs]

RICHARDSON: [Laughs]

MARSHALL: Uh, [hear tell] he was a quite a ladies’ man, too. At least he thought he was.

RICHARDSON: He’s kind of a, kind of a slick, slow-acting guy, you know. [Laughs] He made his rounds, all right. But he, he is on a low key.

MARSHALL: Yeah. Well, um, I guess now, I guess I want to ask you something else and this is getting to be a little personal. Okay, when you came here and you decided you wanted to go into business, okay, how were you able to get the money, the seed money, to go into business

RICHARDSON: Well, yeah, this Bow property you was talking about

MARSHALL: Yeah?

RICHARDSON: we had bought that, and my father had bought it from my uncle Egbert Bow

MARSHALL: Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.

RICHARDSON: yeah, they had [she share]

MARSHALL: Mm-hmm.

RICHARDSON: because he bought me they wanted to buy a place on, uh, Hamilton

MARSHALL: Mm-hmm.

RICHARDSON: so that’s how he, he got the money to buy the place on Hamilton Street and my dad got the, had

MARSHALL: I see.

RICHARDSON: the money to pay him off and uh, so that’s how we got there, and the house was there, um,

MARSHALL: So you just—

RICHARDSON: That’s where I, my dad had this property, that’s how he let me go in there and, uh, set up my business.

MARSHALL: I see. Of course, there was no such thing as going down to the bank and saying, “I want to go into business, will you loan me the money.”

RICHARDSON: Oh yeah, yeah you could do that,

MARSHALL: You could do that?

RICHARDSON: only some people.

MARSHALL: Only some people could do that.

RICHARDSON: But, uh, president of the bank, my dad, had—was a caretaker of this boy, more or less, lived on the farm, my dad worked on the farm, on his, his, his, McLeod, Billy McLeod was an orphan boy

MARSHALL: Oh yeah.

RICHARDSON: And this farmer had taken him to raise

MARSHALL: I see, uh-huh.

RICHARDSON: and my dad worked with this man

MARSHALL: Uh-huh.

RICHARDSON: and, uh, he looked after Billy while he was a kid there, you know. Then Billy got to college and so forth and got to be president of a bank in Ypsilanti

MARSHALL: I see.

RICHARDSON: Ypsilanti Savings Bank, so we could go there and get anything we wanted.

MARSHALL: Yeah, uh-huh.

RICHARDSON: but, uh, others, uh, pretty hard

MARSHALL: Yeah.

RICHARDSON: to get ahold of anything.

MARSHALL: Uh-huh.

RICHARDSON: But, uh, that, we had the inside

MARSHALL: Yeah, the inside—there’s always been that,

RICHARDSON: Mm-hmm.

MARSHALL: of course, there’s always been that kind of situation.

RICHARDSON: Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.

MARSHALL: that there was somebody, but generally speaking, uh, we just haven’t been able to do that kind of thing.

RICHARDSON: No, no.

MARSHALL: I guess I’m, I’m still rather proud of the fact that we got, that Johnny Barfield was able to [who bring] borrow five hundred thousand dollars.

RICHARDSON: Lord have mercy!

MARSHALL: Yeah.

RICHARDSON: He did?

MARSHALL: Couple months ago. Yeah, he went down to the Savings Bank.

RICHARDSON: Mm-mm.

MARSHALL: Borrowed five hundred thousand dollars.

RICHARDSON: well, a different set of people in there when I worked there

MARSHALL: Different time.

RICHARDSON: Yeah.

MARSHALL: Different time.

RICHARDSON: Yeah.

MARSHALL: I mean,

RICHARDSON: ’Cause I went there to borrow five thousand dollars, from [Dick 49:00Elliott, Billy and diet] and all these other new people were in there,

MARSHALL: Mm-hmm.

RICHARDSON: and the fellow told me he wouldn’t owe five thousand dollars to, for the whole South End. That’s what he told me.

MARSHALL: I’m not surprised. I’m not surprised.

RICHARDSON: That’s what he told me. I’m not lying.

MARSHALL: Mm-hmm. I’ve heard that kind of thing.

RICHARDSON: Mm-hmm. So I gave him up and I went to see um, Mack & Mack, who I had known them

MARSHALL: Yeah.

RICHARDSON: all my life we only lived a short distance from each other.

MARSHALL: Mm-hmm.

RICHARDSON: and, uh, he loaned me the money,

MARSHALL: Mm-hmm.

RICHARDSON: fifteen thousand dollars. That was a lot different.

MARSHALL: Mm-hmm.

RICHARDSON: Five thousand from the Ypsilanti Savings.

MARSHALL: Mm-hmm.

RICHARDSON: And then my dad and um, this uh, not Dick Elliott but George Elliott, and George had, had something to do with the bank,

MARSHALL: Oh yeah.

RICHARDSON: years later,

MARSHALL: Mm-hmm.

RICHARDSON: well, they lived only two or three doors from us.

MARSHALL: Mm-hmm.

RICHARDSON: and, uh, I knew them well. Um, and, uh, I could go to the bank, that’s the Ypsilanti Savings Bank, that was at the, Billy McLeod was there,

MARSHALL: Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.

RICHARDSON: one time. His father, Billy’s father, when he first come to Ypsilanti, my dad had a livery stable downtown

MARSHALL: Mm-hmm.

RICHARDSON: and, uh, where the Mormon’s Feed Store was, earlier there was a restaurant in there now around Michigan Avenue that was, um, his father uh, rented that place and uh, had a

MARSHALL: You mean Haab’s.

RICHARDSON: Haab’s—no no, on the other side of the street.

MARSHALL: Oh. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

RICHARDSON: On the riverbank.

MARSHALL: Where the granary is. The granary.

RICHARDSON: No the granary is a farther ways—that’s way down.

MARSHALL: Oh.

RICHARDSON: This is at the place that could have been maybe I don’t know, is that the granary?

MARSHALL: Well, there’s still another little place in there between the granary and the old bank.

RICHARDSON: Yeah.

MARSHALL: That’s the place that’s a Chinese restaurant now.

RICHARDSON: Oh, is it.

MARSHALL: There’s two restaurants there together.

RICHARDSON: Uh-huh.

MARSHALL: When you leave the bank going east,

RICHARDSON: Yeah.

MARSHALL: first building you come to is the Chinese restaurant

RICHARDSON: Yeah.

MARSHALL: and the next one is the granary.

RICHARDSON: Oh, that’s the granary, huh?

MARSHALL: Yeah.

RICHARDSON: I didn’t know that was the name.

MARSHALL: Yeah.

RICHARDSON: I thought the granary was across on, uh, on Grove and Michigan.

MARSHALL: No, it’s right, right across the street from Haab’s.

RICHARDSON: Oh yeah, uh-huh. Did you know a colored man owns Haab’s?

MARSHALL: Yeah. I met him.

RICHARDSON: Yeah.

MARSHALL: Yeah. Hi. His partner’s wife.

RICHARDSON: Yeah, yeah…trying to think of…well, he had a livery stable in there so I knew them well and through—I could get all, all the loans I wanted, Joe did too.

MARSHALL: Uh-huh.

RICHARDSON: When, um, Georgia Elliott [ ] back there.

MARSHALL: Oh yeah. Tell me about the, your, your father’s livery stable.

RICHARDSON: Oh, um, there was a livery stable, the big livery stable in Ypsi was, mm, John Connor’s. There’s where Smith’s Furniture Store is?

MARSHALL: Oh, yeah.

RICHARDSON: And all that parking lot in back of there?

MARSHALL: Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.

RICHARDSON: Well, behind Smith’s was my father’s, uh, livery stable. The alley stable at that time, the alley, it was, um, off the alley.

MARSHALL: Mm-hmm.

RICHARDSON: And we owned that, but Dad sold it

MARSHALL: Uh-huh.

RICHARDSON: Um, that’s the one thing that got me kind of interested in the funeral business.

MARSHALL: Oh, mm-hmm.

RICHARDSON: He used to drive for the hacks for these, uh,

MARSHALL: Oh, mm-hmm.

RICHARDSON: uh, funeral directors, y’know, that, uh, go to the funeral home 53:00and then they’d all come back, and then the horses knew when they were coming back and they’d start racing each other [laughs]

MARSHALL: [Laughs]

RICHARDSON: They had the biggest fun.

MARSHALL: Ah, sure.

RICHARDSON: People in these hacks would be bouncing around.

MARSHALL: Yeah. Well, now, that’s a business, see, I didn’t know about, that’s a business I didn’t know about, and I hadn’t, I didn’t know about your father’s, uh, livery business.

RICHARDSON: Oh, well, there upstairs across the street from where his place was was this, uh, is, uh, was Harriet Starks’ pool room, and

MARSHALL: Oh yeah. I heard of that.

RICHARDSON: [Hurt’s] barber shop,

MARSHALL: Yeah. I heard of that.

RICHARDSON: y’know, and, uh, we were right straight across from the bakery, if you know where the bakery

MARSHALL: Yeah, I know where the bakery is

RICHARDSON: right straight across there.

MARSHALL: On, on Michigan Avenue?

RICHARDSON: Yeah.

MARSHALL: What is now Michigan Avenue.

RICHARDSON: Yes, uh-huh.

MARSHALL: Well now, let’s see, what was I going to ask you about, this uh, 54:00Doctor Dickerson I guess it was,

RICHARDSON: Mm-hmm.

MARSHALL: that had this hospital

RICHARDSON: Yeah.

MARSHALL: down there near the high school

RICHARDSON: Uh-huh.

MARSHALL: Where was it?

RICHARDSON: Right on the corner there, right where, uh, what’s the name of that gasoline station is, where the gasoline station is, that’s all his lot. That whole great big lot there.

MARSHALL: Well, you know who tells me he can’t remember that?

RICHARDSON: Who?

MARSHALL: Foster Fletcher.

RICHARDSON: Foster can’t remember when—

MARSHALL: He tells me he can’t remember that.

RICHARDSON: Oh…

MARSHALL: And I have picked that up, I’ve been picking that up all over. And I’ve been—’course, the thing I’m after now is a picture, see. Now I’ve seen a picture of it,

RICHARDSON: Oh yeah.

MARSHALL: but it was, well, Old Lady Goodman was handling this, and she had a picture, and instead of having a copy of the picture made, she takes it to a Xerox machine.

RICHARDSON: Oh.

MARSHALL: And I can’t copy that. And I want a picture, I want a picture of that hospital, to go in this book!

RICHARDSON: Mm-hmm.

MARSHALL: Cause that is a very important part of Ypsilanti’s history.

RICHARDSON: Yeah, sure.

MARSHALL: That meant that that meant that we couldn’t go to the other hospitals

RICHARDSON: That’s right.

MARSHALL: And the doc couldn’t practice in the other hospitals.

RICHARDSON: Mm-mm, mm-mm.

MARSHALL: So he had to have a, in order to have a place for his patients to go, he had to have his own building.

RICHARDSON: [ ]

MARSHALL: Well, this is part of our history.

RICHARDSON: Surely.

MARSHALL: And I cant find a copy of that picture.

RICHARDSON: There’s a fellow that come out from in Detroit here, young doctor.

MARSHALL: Mm-hmm.

RICHARDSON: Um, he was going to set up out here and he, they wouldn’t let him, uh, practice in the hospital, so he wouldn’t, he wouldn’t come out here.

MARSHALL: Well…

RICHARDSON: Yeah.

MARSHALL: But that was, that was the, Dickerson hospital, then, was, you’re saying it’s right where everybody else says it was, on the corner of on, on, on the corner there where that Clark filling station is.

RICHARDSON: Yeah. Cross, Cross and Washington.

MARSHALL: C-Cross and Washington.

RICHARDSON: Yeah.

MARSHALL: Okay, I’m going to, I’m going to, I’m going to find that place, and I’m going to find that picture, too.

RICHARDSON: Foster didn’t, or…

MARSHALL: Foster tells me he can’t remember it.

RICHARDSON: Aww…

MARSHALL: Foster said he didn’t know. And he tries to put it way down here on 56:00Harriet Street or

RICHARDSON: Aw, shoot…

MARSHALL: And I said, no…

RICHARDSON: Excuse me, please…

MARSHALL: [Laughs]

RICHARDSON: They don’t, they don’t like to give credit for Negroes having property up there in that white neighborhood.

MARSHALL: That’s right. That’s right. [Laughs]

[TAPE STOPPED, RESTARTED]

MARSHALL: I see, I see, they got a list of people who own property own nice homes and I see Robert J. Brooks, Ypsilanti.

RICHARDSON: Yeah?

MARSHALL: Did, did you know them?

RICHARDSON: Oh yeah. Jim Brooks’ son, Robert. He, uh, he, uh, he didn’t have much. Uh, in a way, he did too, I guess, but I think it was his father-in-law

MARSHALL: Father, uh-huh.

RICHARDSON: We used to call him “Tree” Brooks, he was a tall man, about six foot six or seven inches tall.

MARSHALL: Well, there’s also William H. Brooks listed here.

RICHARDSON: Bill? Bill Brooks?

MARSHALL: Yeah, that’d be Bill Brooks.

RICHARDSON: Maybe he…but I…

MARSHALL: You don’t…

RICHARDSON: Yeah, he, he, he didn’t have much, as I…

MARSHALL: Uh-huh. Well, sometime…

RICHARDSON: Then there’s two, two, another Brooks. Now his uh, Tree Brooks’ son, he had a son name of Bill Brooks but he stayed in Detroit

MARSHALL: Oh yeah.

RICHARDSON: He could have owned some property out here.

MARSHALL: Then there’s a Charles Anderson, Charles and Lucy Anderson listed in here.

RICHARDSON: Oh, that was Fred Anderson and uh, Al Anderson’s father. They owned the place there right on the corner of uh, of uh, Catherine and Adams.

MARSHALL: Catherine and Adams. It isn’t there any more, then.

RICHARDSON: No, they tore it down, yeah.

MARSHALL: Yeah. Did you know an Ash? William Ash?

RICHARDSON: Oh yeah, mm-hmm. But he didn’t own—I guess he did own that place, too. He had a place that was just down south of where I lived, on, on Washington Street.

MARSHALL: Mm-hmm, mm-hmm, now I just, I was just glancing through here.

RICHARDSON: Probably they put anybody that was paying taxes, I guess, that’s

MARSHALL: Evidently, that could be, you probably right. I see a John Brown here

RICHARDSON: Oh, yeah.

MARSHALL: Ypsilanti.

RICHARDSON: Yeah.

MARSHALL: And, um,

RICHARDSON: Did you see a Fred Anderson there?

MARSHALL: No.

RICHARDSON: or Al Anderson? They, he owned, owned property.

MARSHALL: Yeah, there’s an Al Anderson.

RICHARDSON: Yeah, mm-hmm.

MARSHALL: Uh-huh. I don’t see a Fred.

RICHARDSON: Fred, he lived in Ann Arbor most of the time.

MARSHALL: Uh-huh. Yeah, there’s an Alfred Anderson.

RICHARDSON: Mm-hmm.

MARSHALL: Uh…I see a James Clark. Would that have been—

RICHARDSON: Richest Negro in Ypsi.

MARSHALL: That—was that Doctor Clark?

RICHARDSON: No, he is a…uh, um, owned a saloon, downtown there.

MARSHALL: Oh. [Laughs]

RICHARDSON: [Laughs] You know where he, you know why he had money.

MARSHALL: Yeah. Well, now, is he

RICHARDSON: They spend all their money at his place.

MARSHALL: Is—where did he live?

RICHARDSON: He lived there on, uh, Adams Street, right up the alley between Catherine and um, Woodard.

MARSHALL: And that house may still be there, huh?

RICHARDSON: It is there, yeah, mm-hmm. Right on the alley there.

MARSHALL: Mm-hmm. Edward, uh, yeah, there’s a—then there’s a Mrs. Anna Clark, Ypsilanti.

RICHARDSON: Anna, Anna, Anna, Anna. Can’t remember.

MARSHALL: And I see a Cain, Miss—Mr. Marshall Cain.

RICHARDSON: Yeah. They lived up on Normal Street, uh, between Congress and um, a 60:00long span in there, uh, over to Michigan Avenue.

MARSHALL: Oh yeah, mm-hmm. Okay. Well,

RICHARDSON: Yeah, Marshall, he’s…

MARSHALL: Mrs. Elizabeth Crosby. Used to be a lot of—