Louise Bass Interview, December 13, 1980

MARSHALL: Now! Mrs. Bass, uh, uh, when did you come to Ypsilanti?

BASS: In 1943.

MARSHALL: Were you married before you came here? You came here—did you-did you and the Doc come at the same time or was he here?

BASS: Oh no, he was here, and I was sick and I went to him as a physician.

MARSHALL: Oh! [laughter]

BASS: I had lived in Ann Arbor,

MARSHALL: Oh, I see.

BASS: …and I worked at the Physicist’s Research Company

MARSHALL: Oh, oh.

BASS: …and he lived in the projects.

MARSHALL: Mm.

BASS: I had a friend there, so, I wasn’t feeling good, so she told me “why don’t you go over to see this doctor—and so then, then we got married and came here.

MARSHALL: That wasn’t a, so that wasn’t a part of your plan, but it just show—goes to show you the best-laid plans…[laughs]

BASS: Yeah, he was going to the School of Public Health and sort of just,

MARSHALL: Oh yeah.

BASS: practicing a little bit in the evening, and stuff like that.

MARSHALL: Um, you all married when?

BASS: The 13th of May

MARSHALL: 13th of May

BASS: uh, 36 years ago [laughs] this is thirty-sev—’ll be thirty-seven.

MARSHALL: That would be 1944?

BASS: Mm-hmm.

MARSHALL: Yeah, 1944, uh-huh. Now, you came here from where? I mean, where is your home?

BASS: Originally?

MARSHALL: Originally.

BASS: Born?

MARSHALL: Yeah.

BASS: Bla—uh, Malvern, Arkansas.

MARSHALL: Malvern, Arkansas. But then you came here from, you came here from Ohio?

BASS: Yeah

MARSHALL: Somehow, I had—

BASS: yeah.

MARSHALL: I had you—yeah.

BASS: that’s right.

MARSHALL: Yeah.

BASS: You see I was born in Malvern. I went to Dayton with my grandmoth—I stayed with my grandmother.

MARSHALL: Oh yeah.

BASS: So we went to Dayton, we went to Toledo, and w—from Toledo back to Dayton, from Dayton to St. Louis, from St. Louis to Fort Smith, Arkansas, from 00:02:00Fort Smith back to St. Louis, from St. Louis back to Dayton.

MARSHALL: Why all the—[laughs]

BASS: And I was ten years old at—

MARSHALL: Why all that moving around?

BASS: and then, uh, uh, and then I went from, then from Dayton was the basic place that

MARSHALL: Oh yeah.

BASS: until I graduated from high school.

MARSHALL: Oh, I see. Why were you, why are you—

BASS: Well, I stayed with my grandmother and she was moving

MARSHALL: Oh.

BASS: with different kids, and then I went to stay with my mother when I was in Fort Smith.

MARSHALL: Oh, I see.

BASS: So I sorta went with her from sister to sister,

MARSHALL: I see.

BASS: to brother, to wherever she happened

MARSHALL: Yeah.

BASS: to be staying. So…

MARSHALL: Now what was your family name?

BASS: Name?

MARSHALL: Name.

BASS: They’re from, uh, Blythesville, Arkansas.

MARSHALL: Blythesville? Well, I’m a, I guess I asked that question out of pure interest. My folks are from down in that area, uh, my mother’s folks are from Arkansas.

BASS: Mm-hm.

MARSHALL: Blands. Nellie [?] and me.

BASS: I never…

MARSHALL: Uh.

BASS: Don’t know…[unintelligible]

MARSHALL: But, now, they’re from around, now they live around Little Rock, some of ’em. But now, uh, uh, uh, my mother was born in Fort Smith.

BASS: Yeah, well, that’s where I went, first went to stay with my mother.

MARSHALL: Mm-hmm.

BASS: She was living in Fort Smith

MARSHALL: Mm-hmm.

BASS: at the time.

MARSHALL: When she lived in Fort Smith, and going back and checking census records, that’s—I’m talking about back in the 1870s now, I found all these Blands that, uh, out of my family name, and I was able to trace all of her uncles and aunts, and so forth. and—it’s just a, a side issue. But anyway..

BASS: And my grandmother’s uh, people had, his, his brother, her brother had the reputation he owned more mules than anybody in the county.

MARSHALL: More mules! [laughs] What did he do, breed them?

BASS: I don’t know, he’s just—they’ve all been, uh, very uh, hard workers.

MARSHALL: Yeah. Mm-hmm. Well, that’s interesting. Um, now, my mother came out of Arkansas. My father’s out of Texas. But now, and checking back on my father’s side, Mrs. Marshall and I—and this ain’t nothing to do with nothing [more] [STOPS AND RESTARTS TAPE] OK, you came to Ypsilanti in 1943, you all married in 1944, and then you had, uh,

BASS: You sure that’s all?

MARSHALL: Mm-hmm.

BASS: OK.

MARSHALL: Then the two of you, when you got together, you had uh, three children.

BASS: Yeah.

MARSHALL: Is Mike the oldest?

BASS: Mm-hmm.

MARSHALL: Mike was number 1?

BASS: And then Ann.

MARSHALL: And—what’s Mike’s birthday?

BASS: Uh, [laughs] March 31, 1945.

MARSHALL: March 31, 1945. And then Ann followed him?

BASS: Yeah. Hers is September second.

MARSHALL: September second.

BASS: Nineteen

MARSHALL: Nineteen

BASS: 47.

MARSHALL: 47. Mm-hmm. What’s Ann’s, uh, uh, name now? Last name?

BASS: Berutti. B-E-R-U-T-T-I.

MARSHALL: B—

BASS: E-R

MARSHALL: E-R, U-T-T-I. OK. And then came,

BASS: Leah.

MARSHALL: Leah.

BASS: Now Leah is seven years after Ann, so it must have been 1954. She was born March 1st.

MARSHALL: March 1, 1954, uh-huh. Now, Leah—is she married?

BASS: Yes.

MARSHALL: Yeah, she’s married.

BASS: Her name is “Little.”

MARSHALL: “Little”, yeah, that’s right, yeah. Now I remember that. And of course, none of them have any children?

BASS: No, but she’s expecting.

MARSHALL: Oh, Leah is expecting. That’s nice.

BASS: [Yeah]. They all have dogs and cats.

MARSHALL: Yeah. [laughs]

BASS: [laughs]

MARSHALL: Oh. And, um, now, when you and Doc uh, got married and came to Ypsilanti, I guess one of the things that I’ve heard ever since I’ve been here, but I guess it was emphasized during the um, banquet that was given in 00:06:00both of your honor—when they were paying tribute to you for what you had done, I heard an awful lot about the contributions that you had made. About your interest in young people here, about uh, look, uh, your, your work with, particularly your work with these young girls.

BASS: Mm.

MARSHALL: And I guess I want to get at that by stating, by finding out, uh, well, first of all, what caused you to get interested in these young people, and then how, how you followed through? In other words, I heard somebody else talk about it, and I want to hear you talk about it.

BASS: Well, I graduated from Hampton,

MARSHALL: Mm-hmm.

BASS: and it was one of the—

MARSHALL: I should have gotten that in.

BASS: One of the things that, that was emphasized over and over and over, in every class,

MARSHALL: Mm-hmm.

BASS: that if you had the chance to get the education, you owed something. So they used to carry this philosophy: “Education of the heart, the head, and the hand,” and community involvement was just the base—just basic to everything 00:07:00that you did, uh, even to uh, what you’re going to do in teaching in the classroom.

MARSHALL: Mm-hmm.

BASS: Uh, if we had to write a unit and you say you’re going to the library and get some filmstrips, inevitably the teacher would say, “Now, what are you going to do in Podunk where they don’t have a lib—film library?” and this and that. So community involvement and our responsibility to the community was uh, y’know, just was an ingrained thing, plus the fact that uh, you see, I, I was raised in a—where the father wasn’t in the home,

MARSHALL: Mm-hmm.

BASS: and my mother had to work all

MARSHALL: Mm-hmm.

BASS: the time. And there were so many people that were very nice to me. And if you remember, at that dinner, this, this teacher that caused me to go to Hampton and all,

MARSHALL: Mm-hmm.

BASS: and I would try to send things, y’know, to her

MARSHALL: Mm-hmm.

BASS: as a sort of payback, and so I, she would always say, um, “I don’t expect you to give it back to me, I won’t live long enough, but you do it for somebody

MARSHALL: Mm-hmm.

BASS: else.” And that just y’know, kind of got to be just a part of the fabric.

MARSHALL: Mm-hmm.

BASS: And then of course when I uh, when we got married and, and I was here, I was working for a while, for the, what, two days that I didn’t get pregnant [laughter]. I guess that’s not part of the [play].

MARSHALL: [Laughs]

BASS: I think, uh, let’s see, we got married in May, and by July I was pregnant, so you know

MARSHALL: Mmm.

BASS: [laughs] about how, how quickly that went. So, I worked until about September, and uh, then I, my mother-in-law and father-in-law came to live with us and Ma was in a wheel chair and Pa, of course, wasn’t able to work, so 00:09:00there wasn’t any question of my working, because we had to take

MARSHALL: Mm.

BASS: care of them. And, uh, I helped Dear a little bit in the office and that sort of thing, but basically I was home, and I am not enthusiastic about whether you can see out of the windows or not, and that sort of thing, and I can’t stay in the house all the time, and so you have to do something.

MARSHALL: In other words, to keep from going up a wall. [Laughs].

BASS: That’s right.

MARSHALL: You had to find something to do.

BASS: Well, I went and had this session with a psychiatrist until I found out that, uh, I told him paying him was causing me more trou—problems than what I had in the first place,

MARSHALL: Mm.

BASS: and, uh, so I stopped going, but his final analysis was “Go to work, [laughs] get a job,” and since I couldn’t do that, then, uh, somebody mentioned the girl scouts and I kinda got all tied up in girl scouts and once you get tied up in that, then you see the need someplace else. Um, so, I had the 00:10:00Girl Scout troops. And, uh, the new, the Center was built, and, of course they were—

MARSHALL: Which center was that?

BASS: Parkridge Center.

MARSHALL: Oh, Parkridge Center.

BASS: And uh, there was, uh,

MARSHALL: What year was that?

BASS: I don’t know these years.

MARSHALL: That’s alright, [forget it].

BASS: Um, so, uh, I, Kitty VanSlyke had a club and, and I had a club that met up there. Um, I guess from the girl scouts, you know we found some contacts. Eastern, uh, people were um, sending people down to help you with the girl scouts

MARSHALL: Oh, mm-hmm.

BASS: and they were also sending people to the center, so you kind [TELEPHONE RINGS] of got tied up with the two things. Uh, the center was really a basic part of the community because, um, well, it was the result of a, really a battle, community battle, and I can give you more details on that, but anyway, from the question you asked me, and so, we got involved with a, a, a club at the 00:11:00center. And, uh, it was a club of boys and girls. And um, so that, y’know, gave me more. Then I got—

MARSHALL: What was the name of that club?

BASS: “The 20th Century”

MARSHALL: The—

BASS: That, no, not “The 20th Cen—” “The Teenager’s Century,” that’s what it was called, “The Teenager’s Club.”

MARSHALL: Mm.

BASS: And, uh, just, uh, by point of the importance, Leo Clark will tell you when he got his first job teaching, he was such, so much in the habit of going by the center after school for a little while, even when he started teaching, he got mixed up and dropped off at the center after school. So that, I mean, that was,

MARSHALL: Yeah.

BASS: it was a park.

MARSHALL: Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.

BASS: And then uh, from, I have always, well, we come from a church-working family,

MARSHALL: Mm-hmm.

BASS: and so I had got involved with the, the Usher Board and at the time, 00:12:00there were, uh, there were more teenagers, older teenagers, y’know, and anything else. Then as far as the um, uh, I got involved with the, uh, State Association of Colored

MARSHALL: Oh yeah.

BASS: Women’s Clubs. They always sponsored girls’ groups, so, one, that led to the involvement there,

MARSHALL: Uh-huh.

BASS: and then of course when you go back to teaching, you see the need for these things [in your work].

MARSHALL: Um, w-back up a little and tell me about this inv—this uh, problem with the Center.

BASS: Well, there was a Carver Community Center here. Then Rutherford was the director. It was a kind of—

MARSHALL: Where was Carver?

BASS: Uh, it was on Harriet Street. It’s the house that’s where the playing, uh, tot lot is, next

MARSHALL: Oh.

Bass: to Perry School.

Marshall: Yeah, mm-hmm.

BASS: There used to be a house there. And it was a, it was the Community Center

MARSHALL: Mm.

BASS: and it got its funds, uh, largely from uh, the United Fund,

MARSHALL: Yeah.

BASS: Community Chest, it used to be.

MARSHALL: Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.

BASS: And there were a group of women called the Triple, Triple Three, or something, about nine or ten people. Mrs. Goodman, and Mrs. Dorsey, and Ella Morton, those are the three that I remember.

MARSHALL: Mm-hmm.

BASS: Well, uh, when they were going to get a director, this was before Rutherford came to be the

MARSHALL: Mm.

BASS: director, Mrs. Dorsey uh, applied for the directorship, and some way Rutherford got it which set up a little

MARSHALL: Mm.

BASS: antagonism there. Well, then during the war, um, they got these funds, 00:14:00was [Landum] funds or something that was used for community centers, and all of that. And, uh, there was a fight as to whether they were going to accept these funds and the building be taken by the city and the other people take, uh, y’know, give up their money.

MARSHALL: Mm.

BASS: Well, this Triple Nine kind of hid their money [laugh] that they had raised, and they didn’t want to be a part of this other. Well, the city was pushing it and Rutherford, of course, was pushing it, and Beatty and some of the others pushing getting these funds in building

MARSHALL: Mm.

BASS: the community center. So, in, they, because it was a community fund agency, they were going to make them give up this money. So they ran off and bought this house upon First Avenue [laughs] uh, where the old club house was.

MARSHALL: Uh huh, uh huh.

BASS: They bought—spent their money and bought, bought this house [laughs]

MARSHALL: [Laughs]

BASS: so by the time the people wanted to, y’know, come to take this money, there wasn’t any money there. Well, then they built this new center, and, of course, closed the other one because they had no money

MARSHALL: Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.

BASS: and no director. They were off the community fund list. And when they had the dedication where Rutherford had an excellent opportunity to pull things together by giving some credit to this other group, and this sort of thing,

MARSHALL: Mm-hmm.

BASS: well, they were kind of left off the program completely. And no mention was made and the people who were on the platform were, y’know, not people who were involved with that,

MARSHALL: Mm-hmm.

BASS: and so that—there was quite a bit of antagonism

MARSHALL: Mm.

BASS: about this thing! So, then the next thing was to uh, y’know, what are we going to do, do with this house up there that you have? And uh, Mr. Thompson 00:16:00uh, was an insurance agency, and he was renting the house, and the money was just kind of sitting. So, then they got the idea of uh, let’s organize a, a club, an association of clubwomen. Mm-hmm. So, they set up this organization and uh, this man got behind in his rent, and everything, and uh, there was some more bitterness, and then, uh, the association decided to, uh, ask him to move and they were going to set up a club house up there. Well, the—whatever money was there—they let the association have it, I mean, I’m sure it’s less than a hundred

MARSHALL: Mm. Mm.

BASS: dollars because they had this house. And they turned it over to this Ypsilanti Association of Clubs. And we just, we started out with a, the project 00:17:00was a little nursery school. And, um, um, we had a house person who stayed there and who took care of the house and all that; they didn’t pay any rent, and…

MARSHALL: Well, now, this club that you mentioned—the something three,

BASS: Well,

MARSHALL: Were they—

BASS: it was just nine women.

MARSHALL: Well, that, well, that they were the people who when you were saying when you were using the word “they”—they, are they you’re talking about now?

BASS: Who gave us the—

MARSHALL: Who were involved in this right now.

BASS: Uh, That was the—

MARSHALL: The nursery school.

BASS: No, that, that was, it, it went all the way over to the Ypsilanti Association of Women’s Clubs.

MARSHALL: I see, I see.

BASS: And, uh,

MARSHALL: What happened to that group?

BASS: The Triple Threes or Triple Nines

MARSHALL: Triple-Yeah.

BASS: or whatever it was? Well, they just

MARSHALL: Disbanded?

BASS: dissolved, uh-huh. Mrs. Goodman can give you a lot of information

MARSHALL: Oh, I see.

BASS: about that. Ella Morton is dead. Uh, these women, same women, kind of 00:18:00arranged themselves so they were the representatives [laughs]

MARSHALL: Mm-hmm.

BASS: from their particular

MARSHALL: Mm-hmm.

BASS: clubs, and the clubs worked very well, uh, uh, in painting and repairing and they paid for it and actually worked on it. And I know that I helped paint the kitchen and would never dare let Dear know that I did this painting because I wasn’t painting at home—

MARSHALL: Yeah [laughs]

BASS: and to go up there and paint! Uh, so we started this little nursery school, and, uh, uh, we couldn’t get any funding from anywhere because certainly it was not really adequate, but it helped to serve beginning purposes.

MARSHALL: Mm-hmm.

BASS: And, uh, it was so, it just grew so rapidly that we weren’t able to stay in there more than a month. And we moved to the Center, and of course, 00:19:00there you had to hide everything and put everything away, uh, when you left in the afternoon. And, uh, it wasn’t really satisfactory, but, I mean, it served the purpose in the daytime. And, uh, so, then, uh, they decided that, uh, it was just intolerable, so, then they moved it to my house—in the basement.

MARSHALL: That wasn’t here?

BASS: No, we lived on Harriet.

MARSHALL: Where did you live on Harriet? Is the house still there?

BASS: Yeah, 738. There are two brick houses on this side of the street—uh, between, uh, right off of Hawkins

MARSHALL: Oh yeah.

BASS: going toward First Avenue.

MARSHALL: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Mm-hmm.

BASS: Ernie Slater lives in one house and the, uh, McDermott

MARSHALL: Oh yeah.

BASS: from the bank lives well, we lived in, the, there. And so,

MARSHALL: You had it in your basement?

BASS: We had it in the basement. And I have marks on my piano now that uh,

MARSHALL: [laughs]

BASS: one little boy put on there, uh, because people would drop their kids off…y’know, sometimes 5:30,

MARSHALL: Mm-hmm.

BASS: 6:00, and uh, you’d stumble down those steps and tell them to “sit there and play now until somebody comes.” And, uh, so we had it in the basement. Incidentally, I was able to show him those when we had a senior party out here the year he was graduating

MARSHALL: [Laughs]

BASS: where he banged on the wood. And, uh, well, we didn’t have any money for a full-time director so I was sort of the unofficial director and, and they used uh, my qualifications in order to

MARSHALL: Mm-hmm.

BASS: get the OK from Lansing, and so forth. And, let’s see, Mary Louise 00:21:00Foley worked there, uh, Winifred Wilson worked there, uh, Sylvia Vick worked there. Uh, it was an all-day thing and we had 3 kinds of things you could, uh, kids could come and stay all day, or, they could, come there, and, s—like if they were in kindergarten, come in the morning, eat lunch, um, and go to school in the afternoon,

MARSHALL: Oh, mm.

BASS: or come for lunch

MARSHALL: Mm-hmm.

BASS: and stay there, y’know, if they went to school in the morning.

MARSHALL: Mm-hmm.

BASS: Or they could just come for lunch and then come back after school. And, the, the big price was $3 per week. Um, the women in the club, because the association was sponsoring it, would make donations of like, uh, cases of soup, or, so we had a rather standard menu. Uh, Ethel Neely, who died, used to kind of 00:22:00help us with the cooking. And, uh, we either had tomato soup and sandwich, or vegetable soup and sandwich. [TELEPHONE RINGS] And, uh, Vonne, uh, said that her, Kenneth, and Sylvester used to come in, when she’d come by to pick them up, and she said they had to get some water because the water at the Nursery School was better than the water at home. [Laughs]

MARSHALL: [Laughs]

BASS: And we had some fund-raising: uh, we had, y’know, we’d get the older kids, or scouts, to work with help putting on a play, and, just things to raise money to keep going. Well, then the State said that, uh, things would be, should be above ground. And, uh, it was just an impossible situation because we couldn’t, we didn’t have anyplace to—above ground. See, they used the back 00:23:00yard. It was uh, fenced in,

MARSHALL: Yeah.

BASS: and all—for the play area. Uh, there was fire protection between the big room and, and the, uh, the furnace. So that was all right but it was just downstairs.

MARSHALL: Yeah.

BASS: And they really used the whole house, that, [they some], they always took their naps downstairs, but uh, the, so one group would be upstairs

MARSHALL: Mm-hmm.

BASS: doing something. So there were two of us there. So we had to kind of give that up. Uh, the philosophy was that it was better to try to do something

MARSHALL: Yeah.

BASS: than to just give [why] somebody who where the kids had died because they were improperly supervised. Well, then we got a chance to, uh, uh, to get a house. We wanted—we had this land and property up there on First Avenue. And 00:24:00that building was inadequate for anything that you wanted to have.

MARSHALL: Mm-hmm.

BASS: And we didn’t have any money to do the restructuring. So this house came up down on Washington Street. And, uh, Peter F—we were able to sell. Somebody wanted to buy that uh, house and property. So, we went to Peter Fletcher and he came to one of the board meetings, and uh, then he thought that probably they could loan us the money, and that’s how we got down on uh, Washington Street. And it’s kind of funny—they say that the National Bank doesn’t help and this kind of thing, and maybe they have been pretty strict with, with black people, but as far as the association is concerned, we can’t say a word.

MARSHALL: Mm-hmm.

BASS: Uh, I know I called one time and asked about the value of the property, and the man told me they did a windshield appraisal. They could lump that 00:25:00property with that down there—and I mean, it was really a

MARSHALL: Mm-hmm.

BASS: question of his pushing

MARSHALL: Yeah.

BASS: for us to get it. And, whenever we’ve been behind in payments and such, uh, the man calls and I say “well, uh, we’re working on it,” and that’s all he needs, is an explanation that we were going to pay. But, of course, that one guy that just took over the account recently—he was calling and was really, didn’t want to accept that, so I called Fletcher [tongue], “Get that man off my back—you know how we w—operate.” [Laughs]

MARSHALL: That was Pete? That was Pete?

BASS: Kaiser.

MARSHALL: Oh, Kaiser.

BASS: Kaiser.

MARSHALL: Oh, Kaiser’s the new man.

BASS: He’s the one that’s gonna—always trying to pin me down, y’know.

MARSHALL: Yeah, yeah.

BASS: And, uh, so, then all of a sudden he quit calling. So, Peter Fletcher, yeah.

MARSHALL: Yeah, uh-huh.

BASS: OK, so that’s that.

MARSHALL: Well, that’s interesting. I didn’t—I didn’t know all that.

BASS: Oh?

MARSHALL: I mean, you always know there are problems but you never know the details. Well, then, uh, then I guess the other thing is that I hear, I hear, uh, this, this club, tell me a little bit more about this, this club of, of these kids that I heard about at that affair.

BASS: Of the teenagers?

MARSHALL: Yeah. They used to come in and out of your house and you’d

BASS: Well,

MARSHALL: give them all kinds of uh, counsel and advice, and even about their courting days, and all that kind of thing…

BASS: Well, see, we had a girl scout troop and uh, they were there overnight—and did their overnight sleep things there. And, uh, they just got into a habit of meeting, and even when they got to high school, we never got too many badges, or any of that thing, but we went to all the things.

MARSHALL: Yeah, mm-hmm.

BASS: And I, I took one group of 5 or 6 girls—we drove to uh, New York with some money that [DOORBELL RINGS] they had saved and sort of that. Dear drove and then we split all of the expenses, and that sort of thing. So we’d take them. And um, so we just had meetings and we would discuss this, that, and the other. [TO LISA] It’s at the back door, Lisa—[DOORBELL RINGS] and uh, we’d dis-discuss these things and they just got in the habit of hanging around. And all through the pregnancies, uh, in order for me to do anything, uh, Michael and Ann were part of the [caper chart]. I mean, somebody had to agree. And, then, of course, when we had the teenagers, see, nobody wanted to be bothered with them,

MARSHALL: Yeah.

BASS: and so we’d have these parties in the house, y’know, in the house there. And they were just all around. They were good to me.

MARSHALL: Mm-hmm.

BASS: and, uh, so that’s just how that got—and they still, still are very good.

MARSHALL: Mm-hmm.

BASS: I mean, they help raise the kids,

MARSHALL: Mm-hmm.

BASS: That sort of thing. But that was the only way to do it.

MARSHALL: You gave, you gave them—I guess the point is—thing that I have gotten out of all I’ve learned about that—I got the impression that here was a group of kids, no place to go, many times, needing somebody to listen to them, needing somebody to sort of guide them.

BASS: Well, you get into that kind of incidentally.

MARSHALL: Yeah, I know.

BASS: If you can’t go out and you’re sort of home then they have to come

MARSHALL: Yeah.

BASS: there. And, ’cause the Usher Board, for the longest time, never met anywhere but

MARSHALL: Oh yeah.

BASS: at our house. Uh, even whether, if we were not there,

MARSHALL: Mm-hmm.

BASS: they had the meeting. I know one time the Eastern Stars were meeting in town for their, whatever it is, y’know, they have, and we said they could use, uh, some rooms while we were going away.

MARSHALL: Mm-hmm.

BASS: And this lady got upset because Louis came in the back and made coffee 00:29:00and, and she wanted to know “what’s happening here where we’re going to have Usher Board meeting? Well, uh, Mrs. Bass isn’t here.” “Oh, that’s all right, we know that.”

MARSHALL: [Laughs]

BASS: So that was just the kind of thing that you did.

MARSHALL: Mm-hmm.

BASS: Plus I think uh, too much credit may be given. Dear was working all hours,

MARSHALL: Yeah.

BASS: and I would have been there alone.

MARSHALL: Yeah.

BASS: And like I say, this hating housework and not wanting to be alone made you pull in somebody to do it—if it did some good it was an incidental. [laughs]

MARSHALL: That was a bless—the blessing in disguise,

BASS: Yeah.

MARSHALL: was what it was doing for you.

BASS: Yeah.

MARSHALL: I mean you were doing this for other people, but I suppose you’d have difficulty in weighing this because so much of it was coming to you…

BASS: That’s right.

MARSHALL: Must be done.

BASS: And anything that was done, I think I have been repaid 1,000 times for it because there isn’t any of those kids that I can’t pick up the phone and 00:30:00call—even to something, to something as silly as wanting a Dairy Queen!

MARSHALL: Oh. [Laughs].

BASS: It sounds, I can call and say, “Gee, I just want…” and the person will say “Oh, you want a Dairy Queen?” [laughter] “OK.” And there’s no, no question.

MARSHALL: Well, in the meantime, during this time also, you also got involved in Brown Chapel.

BASS: Yeah, I joined Brown Chapel when I was pregnant with Michael.

MARSHALL: Yeah. OK. And your first—what were your first responsibilities down there?

BASS: With the Usher Board.

MARSHALL: Usher Board.

BASS: They had an Usher Board with, it had been kind of a, uh, 3 or 4 people, whoever wanted to do it. And of course, my mother was, has been an usher for over 50 years,

MARSHALL: Mm.

BASS: so it was kind of logical to uh, let’s set up an usher board.

MARSHALL: Except the difference was probably is that I mean, you set it up it 00:31:00was mostly these young folks.

BASS: Yes, most of them were young. There were some, y’know, some my age or older, but there were a lot of like Sarah Porter, and at the time they were, uh, either in high school or just…

MARSHALL: I was just going to say, how many of the, of those people are still on the Usher Board?

BASS: Um, well, Sarah has moved to Inkster. That’s uh, Woods’

MARSHALL: Oh.

BASS: daughter.

MARSHALL: Mm-hmm.

BASS: Lois Cook was one of those…

MARSHALL: Mm-hmm.

BASS: Um, Buntz’s daughter, older daughter, um, has died. Um, Betsy Newton was on it at the time and her mother is, was still on, ’cause she—I guess she got incapacitated. Um, Louis Freeman, of course…Oh, I don’t know…

MARSHALL: Edessa was around then.

BASS: Yeah, Edessa was on.

MARSHALL: Was she on it?

BASS: Uh-huh. And she’s still on.

MARSHALL: Still on. Mm-hmm. Yeah.

BASS: I’m trying to think of who. Garvin Freeman was on and then, when he was much younger, and then he moved away, or

MARSHALL: Oh yeah.

BASS: wasn’t, and then he came back. James Moore.

MARSHALL: Oh yeah. Is that the one lives over by me?

BASS: Yeah. I, I can remember when James got married, and then, he was, it was his Sunday to be head usher. Sometimes he’d have to hold little Jimmy in his arms while he stood at the center of the back, and then put him down when he went up, and he’d holler until he got back.

MARSHALL: Yeah. [Laughs]. That’s the little one that just finished high school?

BASS: No, the one, the older boy.

MARSHALL: Oh. I—

BASS: Jimmy, he finished [unintelligible].

MARSHALL: Well, that’s interesting. And then later—

BASS: And I was on the Trustee Board.

MARSHALL: Then you got on the Trustee Board.

BASS: Yeah, I happened to get on that because the Usher Board used to cook dinners, and serve them, and of course our kitchen wasn’t well equipped. And every time we borrowed some dishes or something from the church, Mr. Wilson—who is now in my corner, but couldn’t stand that Usher Board…and it was always some dishes missing. So instead of the, them taking up all of the Trustee meetings talking about them ushers and what they done with the dishes, they kind of, Reverend Smith kind of nominated me to the Trustee Board, and that kind of closed that off a little bit. [Laughs]

MARSHALL: [Laughs].

BASS: So that’s that. And then I was on the Finance Committee.

MARSHALL: Did you join under Smith?

BASS: No, I joined under, uh, hm, can’t think of the man’s name.

MARSHALL: Well, uh,

BASS: He was a West Indian. He’s the one who came when my uh, mother-in-law 00:34:00died. Knowles.

MARSHALL: Knowles.

BASS: Uh, he came to give, uh, consolation to Pa, and he told him don’t worry—he would be joining her soon. [Laughs]. And Pa didn’t say anything, but after he left, he said “Did you hear that preacher? How does he know I’m going to die?” [laughter]

MARSHALL: Well, and then, and then of course Smith came, and that’s when you got on the uh,

BASS: Trustee Board.

MARSHALL: Trustee Board and then you got on the Finance Committee?

BASS: Well, Smith the, Smith had been pastor, had been an assistant pastor at Ebeneezer.

MARSHALL: In Detr—

BASS: And my grandfather,

MARSHALL: In Detroit?

BASS: Uh-huh.

MARSHALL: Oh yeah.

BASS: And my aunt and my grandfather attended church there.

MARSHALL: Oh, I see.

BASS: So he, uh, y’know, we knew each other in that sense. And then Peterson, um, my grandfather then moved to Flint and he was Pastor Stewart under Peterson 00:35:00in Flint.

MARSHALL: Oh.

BASS: So I’ve had a little time

MARSHALL: Yeah.

BASS: with some of those people. Can you cut that off a minute?

MARSHALL: Mm-hmm. [TAPE BREAK] When you were on the Trustee Board, were you ev—were you, were you involved with this new idea that Smith brought here for the Brotherhood Banquet?

BASS: Only from the standpoint that he suggested it, that we have a Brotherhood Banquet.

MARSHALL: You weren’t involved with putting it on?

BASS: Oh, yes, we cooked.

MARSHALL: Oh, you—[laughs]

BASS: Ev—ev—when they used to have it, uh, first they started out having it in the basement.

MARSHALL: I was going to say, the first one was—

BASS: Yeah, well, we—

MARSHALL: as I have it, the first one was in 1953

BASS: Uh-huh, I remember that.

MARSHALL: and he speaker was the man that died—the old Presiding Elder.

BASS: Mm-hmm.

MARSHALL: Reverend Roberts, Roberts.

BASS: I think I was preg—

MARSHALL: Roberts.

BASS: pregnant that year.

MARSHALL: Yeah. And what—this I got out of the newspaper.

BASS: Mm-hmm.

MARSHALL: And I only have newspaper reports on that, that Reverend Roberts was the first speaker and that it was held in the basement of the church.

BASS: There were some others held there too,

MARSHALL: Yeah, mm-hmm.

BASS: And then, because the Usher Board uh, several times

MARSHALL: Mm-hmm.

BASS: did the cooking. Um, and then it was held in the basement of the old high school, [we] did the cooking.

MARSHALL: Yes. You moved from the church to the old high school, and from the old high school eventually to the campus? McKenny? Right?

BASS: I, I, I don’t know.

MARSHALL: Well,

BASS: Anyway, yeah.

MARSHALL: Those—what I know about those of course

BASS: I don’t ever remember going to—

MARSHALL: The general, the general information I have came from newspaper articles.

BASS: I don’t ever remember, uh, really sitting down at one of those

MARSHALL: Yeah.

BASS: Brotherhood Banquets.

MARSHALL: Mm-hmm.

BASS: And, uh, also we did the um, this Mother’s Day breakfast with the Usher Board.

MARSHALL: Oh, yeah, mm-hmm.

BASS: Uh, Reverend Smith was a good pastor in the sense that uh, he was very well organized.

MARSHALL: Yeah.

BASS: And the plans that he brought were always well, well-worked out. It wasn’t something like “We’re going to, uh, y’know, build a house over here,” but it was always, “We’re goin—we’d like to build a house over here, and we can do it if we do this and if we do that and if we do it, do the other thing.” And he was willing to work himself.

MARSHALL: Yeah. He was succeeded by, was it Daniels?

BASS: Mm-hmm.

MARSHALL: Mm-hmm. Well. We’ll get into another phase of this now. One of the things of course that I picked up is, is your husband’s involvement with many community things—and one of them was the NAACP.

BASS: Well,

MARSHALL: Now in these days, I also understand he was also pretty busy building 00:38:00a practice.

BASS: Well, he seemed to always find time.

MARSHALL: Mm-hmm.

BASS: Uh, It [TELEPHONE RINGS] seems that, it, that the NAACP and the Business and [TELEPHONE RINGS] Professional League

MARSHALL: Yeah.

BASS: were things that he never

MARSHALL: Still is

BASS: was too busy

MARSHALL: Still attracting.

BASS: And then the Boy Scouts.

MARSHALL: Oh yeah.

BASS: Everything, he would do anything for the Boy Scouts except wear the uniform.

MARSHALL: Oh yeah.

BASS: And of course, there was the question of not having a cub pack, and Michael being ready for cub pack…

WOMAN'S VOICE: cub pack [unintelligible]

BASS: Had a cub pack down the church.

MARSHALL: Yes, the thing that I was wondering is uh, that you just touched upon something that, which I was interested in, and I ain’t going to [unintelligible]. He was concerned with his own son,

BASS: Oh, [well],

MARSHALL: and that kind of forced, well, kind of brought to a head his own involvement.

BASS: Hm.

MARSHALL: In order to, in other words, it’s one of those things I used to say that if you’re interested in your own child, you’ve got to be interested in others because the others are going to influence your child.

BASS: And another thing, our kids being around the home, it’s a lot easier to keep track of what they’re doing, if they’re at your house.

MARSHALL: Right. Y’know, I used—

BASS: If the party is at your house, you kind of can keep an eye on them.

MARSHALL: My Ruthie used to say if there was a bunch of kids downstairs playing—I know where my child is,

BASS: [laughs]

MARSHALL: where is yours? [Laughs] Yessir. We know the philosophy.

BASS: Shirley laughs a lot now…she says every hay ride they went on, there was Michael and Anne raising up the blanket, y’know you get the kids on the truck,

MARSHALL: Yeah.

BASS: and Michael, “Ooo, what’re you doing under the blanket?”

MARSHALL: [Laughs]

BASS: And there was always Dear up to the lake with the flashlight…”Keep the party up front! Keep the party up front!”

MARSHALL: [Laughs] Uh…

BASS: Uh, Arlene Odum was in that teenage group, and her sister.

MARSHALL: Oh, yeah?

BASS: And Reba, and, um, oh, in that, in our first group,

MARSHALL: Yeah.

BASS: Robina

MARSHALL: Who?

BASS: Robina Parker

MARSHALL: Oh yeah.

BASS: And Shirley, and now Janie’s all in this Girl Scout troop, Janie [and Neachy and].

MARSHALL: Who’s that? Janie who?

BASS: Janie Newland.

MARSHALL: Oh.

BASS: She sings sometimes in the church.

MARSHALL: Well, you’ve had a great influence on the development of some of, of many of the young people in the community.

BASS: Oh, I don’t know whether you’d call it an influence is you call it a, uh, showing them another side.

MARSHALL: Well…

BASS: Showing them—

MARSHALL: That’s it.

BASS: They had to make the choice.

MARSHALL: Yeah,

BASS: I mean,

MARSHALL: yeah, yeah.

BASS: At least, they could, could see some things.

MARSHALL: Uh, I guess, I don’t want to pull you back too soon, but I want to pull you back to this um, this um, involvement at Brown Chapel. You were on the 00:41:00Trustee Board and then Daniels came.

BASS: Mm-hmm.

MARSHALL: Were you here when they built the—when they changed the entrance?

BASS: That was Reverend Smith.

MARSHALL: That was Reverend Smith, when that was changed?

BASS: Mm-hmm.

MARSHALL: And, at the same time they changed that entrance, didn’t they, they also changed the office, didn’t they?

BASS: Well, that was all a part of it.

MARSHALL: Yeah, because before that the office was down front?

BASS: Well, I didn’t know they had any office before that.

MARSHALL: Up over, up on the right of where the choir is?

BASS: Well, that wa—that’s been a store room ever since I’ve been here.

MARSHALL: Mm.

BASS: But that was the [hook]—those, the office and all that was done all at the same time,

MARSHALL: Oh, I see.

BASS: along with the ladies’ bathroom. Yeah. We had quite a discussion when they put in those two toilets facing each other.

MARSHALL: [Laughs]

BASS: [Laughs]

MARSHALL: So you all could sit there and look at each other [laughter]. I guess 00:42:00the thing that I wondered about when they were redoing them not long ago when they were, and I kept saying, “You going to put a loun—uh, uh, uh, a couch in there, for people to lie on?”

BASS: Yeah.

MARSHALL: Yeah. I said “Well, what about the men?” Because you see, one Sunday I—you, you may not know about it, but one Sunday I passed out back when Johnson was here—in Johnson’s office. There was no place to lie down except out on the pew. [Laughs]

BASS: So, the Usher Board, too, bought the furniture, for in there.

MARSHALL: Well, the, the, uh, the, I guess this involvement with Brown Chapel that led up to your, the name you [led], Trustee Emeritus?

BASS: Well, I just heard about that recently.

MARSHALL: Just heard about it? [Laughs]

BASS: I didn’t know anything about that.

MARSHALL: Well, ’cause when we got here,

BASS: It’s like Reverend, Reverend, uh, Mr. Wilson said, when they made him, what, honorary trustee or something, “that’s just to make you keep your 00:43:00mouth shut.” so I don’t know about this trustee emeritus—but I’m very honored.

MARSHALL: I don’t know whether—well, I suppose that depends upon the person who—y’know, the minister who happens to be here. Uh, uh, the way, in the end that’s what it depends on, it doesn’t make any difference what the membership thinks. Of course, uh,

BASS: Well, that’s where I fell out with—nah, I didn’t fall out, but uh,—I, I don’t know that I’d work too well if had been very active with Johnson.

MARSHALL: Well, [laughs]

BASS: And uh,

MARSHALL: Shall we—let’s don’t talk about that.

BASS: OK.

MARSHALL: That’s the one phase of my life that I try to forget! [laughs]

BASS: Then they told me “I’ve done let you talk long enough.” Ooo! I said, I [felt] I tell you.

MARSHALL: [Laughs]

BASS: But of course, I’ve had my difficulties with all of them, I guess.

MARSHALL: Well, I didn’t always have the same extent, but, uh, one of the 00:44:00concerns that uh, has been expressed by a number of people, at least now, has been a matter of uh, of uh, accessibility. And, uh, as, ’course, the church is, I was, I was able to secure the designation of Brown Chapel as a historical building, ah, but on the other hand, that does not rule out, ah, some kind of alteration which would make it more accessible. Now, I’m not just thinking about somebody who may have difficulty because of, of, of, of their being in a wheelchair, or that kind of thing—I’m also thinking about people, well, Mrs., Mrs. uh, Clark…when she was coming. And, not only that, but Mrs. Williams now. Genevieve. These people, who, when they get old—they have a 00:45:00difficult time getting up those steps. And I, I looked at that and I said, “Well, someone around here needs to be concerned about accessibility. Now, how—we’ve mentioned it to, uh, Reverend Wilson. Well, he’s interested but he’s not going to be any more interested than we are, really. And I guess I’m concerned about it. I think that we ought to be interested, we ought to—since the church seems to be doing well now, so far as finances are concerned, we’re bringing in an average of 1,000 a week. Can you remember when we were up there begging for, trying to get 500?

BASS: Well, I can remember when 300 was a good [take].

MARSHALL: Yeah, yeah. And under Johnson, we were begging for 700. And now, if, if we don’t bring in 1,000 a week, something’s wrong. And then we go out here on, on the um, anniversary, we raised almost 2,200 on the anniversary—and that’s extra.

BASS: Well, I’m concerned that the Brotherhood Banquet was, uh, supposed to 00:46:00be a non-profit.

MARSHALL: I, too.

BASS: And I think that if it’s going to be a non-profit, and if you’re going to get any money off of it, then that money should not be put in the general treasury for general funds, but that something, uh, specific—uh, toward building race relations should be used with that money.

MARSHALL: I’m glad to hear you say that, because this has been a pet peeve of mine.

BASS: You see—you go out and you say “nonprofit”

MARSHALL: Yeah.

BASS: and then you make money,

MARSHALL: Yeah.

BASS: and then you use it to pay the light bill, and,

MARSHALL: Yeah.

BASS: I don’t—

MARSHALL: Yeah, I don’t buy it either. But this is, see, we lost out on that when Johnson was here. I kept saying that, and Johnson had other ideas, and nobody, well, these people just don’t stand up for anything, and so, as a result, it’s being used for everything now, and I don’t buy that. I have felt that it should be dedicated to what it was set out to do. Well, anyway! How do you stand on that?

BASS: [?] used to always stick—uh, Reverend Smith used to always get a little 00:47:00bit out of it for something,

MARSHALL: Mm-hmm,

BASS: but, I mean, he basically, uh,

MARSHALL: Yeah.

BASS: uh,

MARSHALL: Well, probably, probably, probably when Reverend Smith was here, he was, maybe there wasn’t quite enough money to go around or something like that, but now I maintain there is.

BASS: Yeah, [but there]

MARSHALL: We just raised our minister’s salary to, what, 200, 290 dollars a week,

BASS: Mm-hmm.

MARSHALL: Yeah. 290 a week. and for a man who has no major expenses like a house or something like that, I think it’s pretty good money. And that’s why I say,

BASS: Do you pay his social security?

MARSHALL: No, we don’t do that any more. We don’t do that any more.

BASS: Do you pay the insurance?

MARSHALL: Well, we, we pay their insurance, right, we pay that, that, that Blue Cross which runs around 70-something a month, and then

BASS: And then they used to—

MARSHALL: Also pay that church insurance.

BASS: We had some trouble with uh, um, well, I said I don’t believe in buying them suits and giving them those things, and Reverend Smith said, “So you 00:48:00don’t want to buy me a suit?” I said “No.” And he he pointed out that at that time he used to use his gas and going to see the sick and handing people a piece of money when they needed it, so I—and that’s why we, we started that 10 dollar a month travel.

MARSHALL: Well, we give, we give him 100 dollars a month.

BASS: Uh.

MARSHALL: We give him 100 dollars a month travel. In other words, he gets $1,200 a year to buy gas with, and that’s low because when he goes on a long trip, that’s extra.

BASS: Oh. OK.

MARSHALL: But gas is a dollar and…

BASS: And Reverend Powell always tried to cut things. Uh, like going to Conference, he didn’t want to ask for this and he didn’t want to ask for that,

MARSHALL: Mm-hmm.

BASS: and, I mean, the amount that he would ask for, I always felt was too low because he couldn’t get a room. I asked him if he was going to get a room down there, y’know, where the toilet’s down the hall or what? And when he went to 00:49:00the General Conference, he said, when the car broke down, that’s the first thing he thought about, that I, what I’d said.

MARSHALL: [Laughs] I remember that.

BASS: But I think you ought to send them to those conferences because that’s the way they,

MARSHALL: Yeah.

BASS: Uh, see what’s actually going on and you can’t really get a feel for it unless you’re there.

MARSHALL: I would agree with you. I guess I had another thing, too, I like for them to go, and I almost like for, I like the idea…Maybe this is personal, but I like the idea of sending

BASS: Some other people.

MARSHALL: your best, or selecting at least from your best people to go as delegates. Now, the rea—when I say that, is, uh, when I was going to the conference, for example, as a delegate, um, I was getting on important committees, I was sharing committees, I was putting Brown Chapel on the map.

BASS: Mm-hmm.

MARSHALL: I chaired committees that had never been chaired before by laymen, under, under [Pringle].

BASS: Well, those are things I think that they’ll have to work on, and they—

MARSHALL: Do you know who the chairmen of your local, of your current historical committee is? We’re getting ready to celebrate a bicentennial—in 87? I’m the state chairman—Brown Chapel!

BASS: Yeah, well, these are the things that they just don’t, uh, look into, I think that you have to send people who can talk.

MARSHALL: Yeah, I—

BASS: And, uh, it is true that, that, that there are many people who are faithful,

MARSHALL: Oh, yeah.

BASS: and who work hard, but to be a part of the total thing, you need to know what to do.

MARSHALL: Right, [?] Well, um, let me see, the other thing I wanted to ask you, now, in the years you’ve been here, have you been involved in much, uh, in, in, you told me about some of it, but have you been involved in any other thing concerning city politics, city goings-on, and so forth?

BASS: Um, I had, I had—

MARSHALL: Anything that would make you go to city council meetings?

BASS: Oh yeah, I’ve sat down there in council meetings lots of times. When we uh, were talking about that nursery school, that building that’s in the back there, it used to be a nursery school during the war when it was federally funded. And, uh, when we had to move out of First Avenue, we asked the council to let us use a portion of that rental office for the nursery school. It was set up with all the requirements, and then we said, and, uh, so we wrote a letter to the City Council about it, and they had to go to Chicago, and they had to write to this and that and the other but thing that it boiled down to they didn’t want to do it. So I sat at student council meetings uh, the whole summer uh, asking y’know, “What is the decision?” And, uh, it ended up with, 00:52:00y’know, my having to tell them that I understand what the problem is, if you didn’t want it, why didn’t you say so. Why weren’t you man enough to stand up and say, “we don’t want to let you have that,” rather than telling all those lies and going around [unintelligible] over there? Which, uh, didn’t—I mean it got to be the place, one time I took Ann or Reba to register because they’d gotten to be 18, er, 21, and uh, so while she was standing in line, I just went up to council meeting. They couldn’t believe that I didn’t come to raise Cain about something. And, uh, you know.

MARSHALL: During those days, now, during that time, who was on the council representing the first ward?

BASS: Well, you see, well, and with the council it started out to be a, a city-wide thing, and that’s when I knew about it,

MARSHALL: Mm-hmm.

Bass: really. I was not too involved before that. And uh, they, the first, uh, 00:53:00change of the charter to make it a city-wide thing. Uh, I think it was in everybody’s mind that the person who got the top vote would be the mayor.

Marshall: Mm-hmm.

BASS: Well, Amos Washington uh, ended up with the top vote which messed up the whole plan. So that’s when they started to electing them. It was a miscue, because the black people were pushing for a black man in there, and the white people were pushing for a, a, “middle-of-the-roader” in there, and the two combined made him have more votes than anybody.

MARSHALL: I see, uh-huh.

BASS: And then there was, uh, the next person was Seymour, who uh, uh, ran, Frank Seymour.

MARSHALL: You sure about that, now?

BASS: Yeah, ’cause I remember—

MARSHALL: Seymour, I got it Seymour was number one, and that Washington succeeded him.

BASS: No, Amos Washington was the first person.

MARSHALL: Amos Washington was the first school board member.

BASS: Am—no, no…Amos Washington wasn’t the first school board member.

MARSHALL: No. No. He was the second school board member.

BASS: Yeah.

MARSHALL: But not—go ahead. I

BASS: I mean,

MARSHALL: mean, I just want you to know the way I’ve, the way I have gotten it, yeah,

BASS: I may be wrong, but this is the way I remember it,

MARSHALL: The way I’ve gotten it is Seymour was [?]

BASS: and then, uh, then Seymour ran. But see, when they made that first change in the charter, it was Amos Washington who got more votes than anybody else. At least that’s the way I remember it,

MARSHALL: Mm.

BASS: and then Seymour was on, and then Burton. And, uh, these were all while it was a city-wide thing, and they used to have a civic club with, uh, Julia Vanslyke’s mother, and Mashatt, and Dorsey. A lot of these people were in it who worked for registration and voting, also Myrtis Stinson. So I used to work with getting out the votes, and manning the stations where you called people to 00:55:00vote, and that sort of thing. Then with the, uh, school board—uh, being active in the PTA area, where my kids were, and we had quite a hassle for the new addition to Perry.

MARSHALL: Oh yeah.

BASS: And that’s always a question as to whether they wanted the addition to concentrate on blacks or whether it was because we needed it, and we got it.

MARSHALL: [laughs]

BASS: Uh, y’know, so. That’s where I fell out with uh, Beth Milford and Errol Brown. Beth thought she was going to use me, and I was using her for information.

MARSHALL: Mm-hmm.

BASS: And, uh, that’s why they didn’t hire me at first as a teacher. Uh, she…the other thing that she got angry about—there was a nursery school down in Woodruff School, and uh, I was on the Community Fund Board. They came up for 00:56:00their allotment. Well, I felt that they should keep it open and [ship doe], some of the people were against it. But then she got the union to write a letter stating that if they didn’t keep that open, they would withdraw their support of the Community Fund. Well, I changed that, and decided that we would not do it because once you bow to the largest contributor, then you’re controlled, and that’s where we came to a parting of the ways.

MARSHALL: [laughs]

BASS: Because she no longer had me where she thought she had me. I had just to go against her because she forced the hand, and then she got Amos Washington, and she and Errol Brown, uh, thought that because Amos and I did not get along that he would go along with them in fighting my application for a job, and so 00:57:00that was the next, uh, uh, surprise to her.

MARSHALL: Did he support you?

BASS: Oh yeah. I mean, he says one thing, one thing, one thing sometimes [laughs]

MARSHALL: [Basically some…]

BASS: And so, the whole summer they refused to hire me, and um, with all these reasons, and this, and, uh, then they wanted to hire me on a substitute basis and I said, no, that if there was something in my background that was not satisfactory, they should tell me so, though I knew that as a teacher I would not take a substitute pay. And that was when the seventh and eighth grades were in Perry School because the buildings were not finished.

MARSHALL: Oh yeah.

BASS: So the teacher that they hired lasted five weeks. And Joslin came in and Ann was in that group, and uh, so, the superintendent and, and uh, Joslyn said 00:58:00for the sake of the kids, would I at least take the job until Christmas? So that’s how I got in the system. And she used the thing that uh, I would teach for the black kids. Well, it happened that, uh, Mildred Harris was also on the board—uh, Dr. Harris’s wife, and she didn’t like Beth either, they had two doctors’ wives had a controversy.

MARSHALL: Mm-hmm.

BASS: So, she asked her well, how did I do that with all of them sitting up mixed up in the class, how did you do that? And uh, so, then they, they, uh, uh, oh, what was that guy’s name was, taking some classes up at Eastern, and, he said, uh, “Hold on to it and when they move in the new school, go teach one day and uh, then see why they don’t put you regularly—because if you don’t 00:59:00go one day in the new school, they can say they don’t want—[END OF TAPE 1]

[BEGINNING OF TAPE 2]

MARSHALL: Oh, Ardis, oh, Ardis, A-R-D-I-S.

BASS: Yeah. See,

MARSHALL: [Now, you mean]

BASS: he had worked with me in the, with the PTA because when Perry School didn’t get what they were supposed to have, I went down there

MARSHALL: Yeah.

BASS: and the Porter was the Business Administrator and, um, Ardis supported the, Ardis supported the [man], the demands for the school. And uh, a lot of 01:00:00things had been cut out and initialed by the principal. This is the reason why they didn’t get it, and Ardis was nice enough to show this to [me]. Then the, the PTA bought the P.A. system for Perry School. And uh, we invited Porter to come over there, first time he’d ever been invited to anybody’s meeting. So, from that, he fixed the kitchen and everything—so that was my work for the school.

MARSHALL: Uh-huh. Now, the new man that came on after Ardis?

BASS: Was Emerick.

MARSHALL: Who?

BASS: Emerick.

MARSHALL: Emerick.

BASS: and he said he could, he had recommendations from the principals and the schools where I had substituted, and he had a recommendation from Joslyn with some reason for not hiring me. So he called me down and uh, he didn’t want any 01:01:00more letters. So I told him, well, he had to keep his job because I had no control over what letters community people wanted to write and I wasn’t going to take it under that. Then he decided that my husband talked too much. Well, this came from Beth Milford because Beth and Dear were on the first Human Relations Commission, and uh, every time she popped up with what was happening at the school, he came back with “my wife teaches over there and she, she hasn’t said anything about it. She said so and so and so and so.” So, and oddly enough, with all this stuff that Beth Milford did to me when they kicked him off the staff at Beyer—or were going to, uh, you had to have a unanimous decision from the board at that time, and “” was the only one who would not vote against it. So they kicked Dear off and the next year they kicked him off, [laughs] kicked him off the board

MARSHALL: Oh, Lord.

BASS: and the next year they kicked him off the staff. Then they went to court and they had to put him back on.

MARSHALL: Well, they had to put who back on?

BASS: Milford.

MARSHALL: But now, how long did your husband stay off the board?

BASS: Well, he, that’s an elected thing, being on the board of the, you know, the official board—

MARSHALL: Yeah.

BASS: sort of the president and secretary, the staff—

MARSHALL: Yeah, yeah.

BASS: that’s an elected thing.

MARSHALL: Yeah, but you said that they kicked him off the board.

BASS: Well, they didn’t vote him back on.

MARSHALL: Oh, he was still in the hospital,

BASS: Yes, he had [hospital] he, uh,

MARSHALL: oh, I see, I see, yeah, I see what you mean.

BASS: He just wasn’t elected to office anymore.

MARSHALL: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Of course, I think when I got here, Milford was still off the staff.

BASS: I think they had to put him back.

MARSHALL: They did? Well, he nev—I, I picked up on something when I first got here, and that was that his reputation was not too good but I never really knew why.

BASS: Mm.

MARSHALL: Um, [laughs], um, oh yeah, one—let me back up a minute. Now when you 01:03:00tell, when you telling me all this about your difficulties getting on the school board—getting on teaching, how many black teachers did they have?

BASS: Well, all the black teachers were at uh,

MARSHALL: Perry?

BASS: Perry, except…no, I guess they all were. Leo Clark was at the High School. Uh, we had passed the stage of uh, uh,

MARSHALL: Strictly segregated—

BASS: strictly, strictly uh, segregated set-up. Oh, I had worked, too, with the, the Superintendent before. Ardis had a Moral and Spiritual Val—Moral, yeah, Moral and Spiritual Values Committee from the community. You see, in Ypsilanti High School, they used to go on a senior outing,

MARSHALL: Mm-hmm. Go ahead.

BASS: and uh, they went to places where the kids couldn’t swim—black kids couldn’t swim. So, um, we ran a meeting on this moral and spiritual things, 01:04:00you know. And uh, so, I asked did they go—that’s when Wilsey was the principal—did they go places where black people couldn’t go, and he said, “Well, this, uh, there was no place that they could go, that the kids could—” I said, “Well, better stay at home,” and uh, so then we started this discussion that uh, either they go to a place where all kids could participate or not go at all, and uh, that’s when I was told by one of the leading educators that if we go enough, they would learn that black kids knew how to act and then they would open up. So I said well, I resented the fact that my child had to prove he knew how to act and nobody else’s did—so that kind of began the broke, the breakdown and that’s what began to label me as a 01:05:00troublemaker [sister].

MARSHALL: (Laugh) I, I laugh, Mrs. Bass, because the, the one thing I guess I’ve learned is what was going on in Ypsilanti before I had ever heard the name is really a reflection of what was going on everywhere else. [Laughs] The uh, Human Relations Commission—now was your husband that served on that? I was thinking it was you.

BASS: He was the first chairman.

MARSHALL: He was the first chairman.

BASS: In fact, he was the instigator for pushing it. And then after he served his term, they didn’t even ask him if he wanted to run again. [Laughs]

MARSHALL: [Laughs] Was that when my good friend, probably shouldn’t say that, Walter Erickson—was uh, was he involved in it? In its beginning?

BASS: I think he was. I think he helped or something.

MARSHALL: Well, when I came, I learned, that was one of the things that I learned—that he was, had been a member of the Human—Human Rights Commission.

BASS: Yeah, [bay].

MARSHALL: And there were a lot of things that, that I, uh, wondered about in those days. What-what, what was your, what was your general evaluation, what would be your general evaluation of the way that Ypsilanti kept up with the changing times—and that’s that period in there from about 1945 on up to…

BASS: Well, I don’t think Ypsilanti kept up at all.

MARSHALL: In other words, you had to fight for every inch?

BASS: Every inch.

MARSHALL: Mm-hmm.

BASS: Uh, for example, Ypsilanti proclaimed it was interested in housing, uh, and they said they’d submit a proposal and this sort of thing…and they got 01:07:00to be quite a joke in the Chicago office as to whether they really were sincere or not—and it upset some people to no end that somebody here would know somebody in the Chicago office enough to have them call them and ask them is Ypsilanti serious about this proposal

MARSHALL: [chuckles]

BASS: and it had happened to be a joke.

MARSHALL: Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.

BASS: So I, I think, uh, every step of the way, has had to be pushed.

MARSHALL: Were there any persons who stand out in your mind as say, quote, “friends of the blacks in the community” from their practices, attitudes?

BASS: Black, Blackburn? Blackburn. He used to teach us at Eastern. His wife was quite

MARSHALL: Blackburn?

BASS: Blackburn. His wife was quite active in politics and uh, movements. Francis Young was quite active in girl scouts because we had problems. Girl scouts used to all go to camp at the same time, the black ones, and uh, uh, we thought they ought to be able to go anytime they wanted to, like, uh, the people wanted to go.

MARSHALL: Mm-hmm.

BASS: And Marie Arnett, who’s an old lady who had worked in, in the, with girl scouts—she was a cook out there at the camp—and uh, uh, who pointed out this thing that was being done.

MARSHALL: Mm-hmm.

BASS: And uh, uh, oh, what’s his name—he was with the real estate who sold us this house? Um, hm! I can’t think of his name. He was taking his daughter to camp and the Hollifield girl was going, and they were to room together, and 01:09:00he didn’t believe that this should be. And uh, so they suggested that maybe he ought to take this child home.

MARSHALL: That wasn’t Hughes, was it?

BASS: No. I, I’d get

MARSHALL: That’s all right. That’s all right.

BASS: the phone book. And uh, uh, It ended up that the girl and, and Doris Hollifield became the best of friends, and that broke down that. So, Francis Young and this Marie I met, uh, I think, uh, stand out to me. Um, there are probably some but they just don’t come to my mind.

MARSHALL: Mm-hmm.

BASS: very quick.

MARSHALL: Well, another question that on—that comes to my mind also—somehow I picked up some things about discrimination in, say, bands, musical groups, 01:10:00this kind of thing, even though they were integrated.

BASS: In the Drum, Drum Corps, um, there were never any black girls chosen. And, uh, then let’s see, Peggy Neely uh, was finally, and the Horne girl were finally picked. Rh, of course, then Jane Rivers’ daughter, Margaret Eaglin's, Val, and Ann all came through at the same time, and all made the application. And the requirements were that they had to have good grades, they didn’t have to play a musical instrument, but they had to be, y’know, a, a certain height and a certain weight, and had to have good grades, and somebody said ‘attractive.” So, my daughter had the right height and she, um, had the 01:11:00right grades, and she had, she had the added thing of playing the drums, and I wanted to know which one on there was going to tell me she wasn’t attractive!

MARSHALL: [Laughs]

BASS: So they let Jane Reyberg, whose daughter’s white—they didn’t want her on there ’cause Jane raised, raised Cain so much, and of course Margaret, it was Val, and Ann were black so all three of them made it. And so that was, that was something you had to work on to break down.

MARSHALL: Mm-hmm.

BASS: Uh, you had to break down, uh, places to eat. I took the girl scouts on a walking tour, and when we came back, there’s a little old greasy spoon next to the bus station and we were just going to stop and get some pop—then they wanted us to sit at the back of the place, so everything has been, if, if you don’t work, you don’t get it. There are a lot of pretenders that they’re 01:12:00interested in the, in the progress of the blacks, but they aren’t.

MARSHALL: While all this was going on, then, I guess the one hundred dollar question that I have is what—how much backing was coming from the local community, I mean the black community? Were they passive about all of this? Accepting all of this?

BASS: Well, it seems to me that there’s a situation where there were certain leaders who uh, uh, who spoke for the black community, and it’s always been my impression that these particular chosen leaders were very uh, passive, and uh, we were not the passive couple. Uh, we were supposed to…uh, so they never knew which way we were going.

MARSHALL: Then you did have the, the, the so-called white leader, selected by 01:13:00the white folks, not white leader but white spokesman?

BASS: Yeah.

MARSHALL: A black spokesman.

BASS: a person who came to—

MARSHALL: A black spokesman.

BASS: if they wanted to know anything, they’d ask Amos Washington, Gene Beatty, or Jesse Rutherford.

MARSHALL: What about Neely?

BASS: Which Neely? Ben Neely?

MARSHALL: Ben Neely. Was he ever in the—

BASS: Oh, Ben was a maverick. [laughs]

MARSHALL: Was what? A maverick?

BASS: Maverick. No, Ben didn’t fall in the same category with them.

MARSHALL: Was he—

BASS: I think that he did a lot of work with the unions, and I don’t know a lot of, uh, about his relationships. But I thought he was a, a, outspoken person who did,

MARSHALL: Mm-hmm.

BASS: who did well, and did some things and caused some things to be accomplished, but, uh, in his way.

MARSHALL: Mm.

BASS: And I don’t think he was uh, accepted as a so-called leader, but he was 01:14:00kind of a maverick.

MARSHALL: About 1960,

BASS: Now see, you ask me, you put a year to it, and it doesn’t mean a thing to me.

MARSHALL: Well, no, I’m just, I really, I’m not, this is not important, so far as time is concerned, but about that time, Eastern hired its first black teacher. It was not Wells—it was somebody else who came before Wells. I guess the thing I’m missing is—

BASS: As far as Eastern is concerned, uh, uh, I don’t know a lot about it.

MARSHALL: Well, no, I’m not asking about Eastern—I was just wondering if you remember any community involvement?

BASS: No, I haven’t felt that Eastern has done anything uh, outstanding as far as community involvement with the teaching staff. There has been, uh, with the Campus Service Corps, or something

MARSHALL: Oh yeah, uh-huh.

BASS: like that, where they had students who came

MARSHALL: Yeah.

BASS: and contributed their services. But so far as the um, black faculty is 01:15:00concerned, that had, I would say that their effect on, on uh, uh, Ypsilanti was nil.

MARSHALL: Well, that interests me because uh, that, that, that, those, those, those so-called pioneers on the faculty that were here even before I got here…it interests me because I would have thought that the very forces which made it possible for them to get jobs on campus would make them active in the community.

BASS: No, it hasn’t, really.

MARSHALL: For example, with me.

BASS: Neither from the, uh, from the University of Michigan, [I can’t] really.

MARSHALL: Yeah. Well, see—

BASS: I don’t believe that they have not had

MARSHALL: that kind of [effect]

BASS: the effect on the community that Hampton had on the

MARSHALL: Yeah.

BASS: Newport News in

MARSHALL: Yeah.

BASS: in that area, which was what I was looking for,

MARSHALL: Well, I guess, I guess, uh,

BASS: and I may be super-critical because of that.

MARSHALL: Well, I, I guess I’m sensitive to it, because when I came, I noticed the same thing. Of course, I didn’t come until 69. But I noticed the same thing. And I guess the thing that I felt was, that, uh, well, when I came, I said the thing that made it possible for me to be at Eastern were all of the things that went on beforehand. The Human Rights Group, the uprising of the students on the campus, now that’s, when I really go back to it, that’s the reason they wanted me, I know that. [Laughs]. So, I guess when I got here, the first thing I did was to start affiliating, and I—’course, Brown Chapel, number one; Business Professional League, number two, and I mean, and then fighting the fraternities trying to get them to become involved as I felt they should. But, it, the question always, well, I guess, the thing that was always in my mind, there were all these people who had been here and were so proud of 01:17:00this place, and they felt that, uh, and, uh, they, they, they soon like got the feeling that people just wanted them here period! And I [was], I never felt that.

BASS: Well, the thing that Eastern held for is that it provided some jobs.

MARSHALL: Yes, janitor jobs,

BASS: Mm-hmm.

MARSHALL: mostly in those days. When I got here that’s about all they had. [laughs]

BASS: Mm-hmm. That’s about it.

MARSHALL: Well, that’s interesting. Now, the other thing I want to—let me, let me back up, and back, back on this one too—I want to get a, kind of an e—evaluation of the time that you’ve been here of Brown Chapel as a community service.

BASS: Uh, I think that community service involvement with Brown Chapel went up very much when Reverend Smith was here, and has declined ever since. Well, you asked me!

MARSHALL: [Laughs] well, does do you the good to tell you that you’re not 01:18:00alone in that opinion. [laughs]

BASS: I mean, Reverend Smith used to get into everything.

MARSHALL: Mm-hmm.

BASS: And, um, uh, [TELEPHONE RINGS] But I don’t think that it has been a, [TELEPHONE RINGS] a force

MARSHALL: Mm.

BASS: that churches should have on the community.

MARSHALL: Mm. [TELEPHONE RINGS] Well,

WOMAN'S VOICE: Hello?

MARSHALL: Well, I guess, uh, except

WOMAN'S VOICE: Yes, she is. Her name was Lisa?

BASS: Yeah. Where’d she go? Lisa!

MARSHALL: Getting to the end now but I do want to ask you, uh, having lived here since 1944, and having seen many changes take place, having been a part of, or played a part in that change, uh, what kind of a future would you like to 01:19:00see? What would you like to see happen, say in the next 10-15 years?

BASS: Hm. Well, that’s, that’s the first time you’ve got me stumped,

MARSHALL: [Laughs]

BASS: because I’m concerned about the attitude of the general young people, and particularly young black people toward responsibility to the community and to the other people in the community and their development. And I think that the hours that we spent working with those, young, uh, kids—uh, I don’t think they’re paying back by putting in that amount of time with theirs. I realize that the situation is different. The economic upheaval means that they have less 01:20:00time to put, but I don’t think they put as much as they can put, and the, uh, high school groups coming along are not working up to their ability.

MARSHALL: Why do you say they have less time?

BASS: Because they have to spend more time scrapping out a living. With the cost of living and the amount of money that is needed to run the home—they, they have to spend more time than what we did. Because many of us were working in a private family, and Miss Jones said if this was your day to do so-and-so, you could get off. Uh, the women are working in factories and they don’t let you off to go have your club meeting or to give your church dinner, that kind of thing. They are—the job requirements are more structured, and so that they 01:21:00don’t have the leeway, but then I think that the very fact that they were able to get those jobs means that somebody pushed for them, so they need to spend less time, uh, socializing and more time then trying to work it.

MARSHALL: That’s an interesting, that’s an interesting point of view. Uh, I have to, I have to agree to that, tend to agree with you there, [phone]. I have concerns, I have some of the same concerns, by the way. Uh, this lack of concern of many people about their fellow man. Uh, it it exists in the church, it exists outside the church; it exists particularly among those who happen to be a little bit more fortunate. You see, you and I came out of similar schools.

BASS: Mm.

MARSHALL: I mean, I think in most black schools there was that kind of an indoctrination.

BASS: Mm.

MARSHALL: I have a feeling that much of what we’re missing is one of those unforeseen results of integration.

BASS: Yeah. I agree.

MARSHALL: Because, uh,

BASS: And we’re not getting across to the kids, the younger kids the need for this—

MARSHALL: Yeah.

BASS: and the, and the, the fact that being prepared.

MARSHALL: And if we cannot expect the white teacher in the school to do it.

BASS: Well, I don’t think it’s a question of, of race as far as uh, motivating the kids. I uh, used to feel like that, that a, a black teacher would care more and do more. And I, I don’t think that it’s based on the race of the person. I think that there are some very good white teachers who care about children and who work, there are some very poor, uh, some black teachers who 01:23:00don’t really care about kids and don’t work, so I wouldn’t put it on

MARSHALL: You wouldn’t put it on a racial basis.

BASS: a racial basis. No, not at all, just like I don’t put, uh, I say black kids because I’m black,

MARSHALL: Yeah.

BASS: but I don’t think that the problems that the kids are having in school are—I think they’re an economic, social thing rather than

MARSHALL: Mm-hmm.

BASS: a race thing.

MARSHALL: Yeah.

BASS: I find the same problems with the poor

MARSHALL: Yeah.

BASS: white as I do with the poor black. And, uh, I don’t have, uh, [bear] and I don’t agree with it.

MARSHALL: I would, I would, I, I, I, I, I, I, I can follow you, I follow you on that, but at the same time, I think with many of them, they still let the matter of prejudice get in the way. Now, I would, for the most part, I would agree with 01:24:00you, that it should not be and is not necessarily a racial problem, but I do feel that some people are letting their prejudices get in their way.

BASS: Well, both black and white.

MARSHALL: Yeah. We—oh, we can be, we can

BASS: Yeah.

MARSHALL: be more vicious in our prejudices.

BASS: But I think too long we’ve used that as an excuse.

MARSHALL: Yeah.

BASS: And I am uh, I’m not saying that I haven’t seen any prejudiced

MARSHALL: Oh yeah.

BASS: white teachers,

MARSHALL: Mm-hmm.

BASS: but I don’t think it’s as, as broad as

MARSHALL: As rampant.

BASS: as we think.

MARSHALL: I, I think it’s lessening

BASS: And then I think that black

MARSHALL: I think there was much more

BASS: teachers don’t speak up about it. For example, some kids were found with marijuana the other day.

MARSHALL: Mm-hmm.

BASS: Now, I didn’t hear about it until the next day.

MARSHALL: Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.

BASS: Had that been a black kid, I would have heard about it in the teacher’s room right off.

MARSHALL: Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.

BASS: There’s these little things.

MARSHALL: Yeah.

BASS: Um, a black person came over to the school and sort of rearranged the furniture in the office. Well, within 10 minutes, that was the talk in the teacher’s

MARSHALL: Yeah.

BASS: room. Well, then somebody told me about this white parent coming over raising hands and using all kinds of language about the bus situation.

MARSHALL: [Yeah, any] like that.

BASS: And I said, “Why didn’t that get brought up? Didn’t Mrs. So-and-so come here?” Well, many black people won’t introduce those things. And this woman was talking about the trouble that they’re having in Hawaii, and uh, how they’re getting the white folks, and they’re doing this, and, and this was the talk until I got tired of hearing it, and I said “Oh, just like black folks in Georgia a few years ago, huh?”

MARSHALL: Mm-hmm.

BASS: And so we ended that discussion, but if you don’t speak up, and some of them don’t or are not too aware, but somebody has to make them aware of that 01:26:00situation. I’m tired now.

MARSHALL: All right. One other thing, on the recent, uh, hearings for the superintendent,

BASS: Oh, yeah. They said that, uh,

MARSHALL: they tell me that we haven’t even been able, they said, they said when one man was here, they had two citizens

BASS: Yeah, well, we don’t—

MARSHALL: from the black community down there.

BASS: They finally went and uh, that’s another thing, Ogden, every time he opens his mouth, he puts his foot in it. And, uh, I’d say “Well, ol’ Ogden messed up again, huh?” I’d say “I didn’t hear him, but I understand he said that the black candidates knew the answers too fast.”

MARSHALL: [laughs]

BASS: I said, “Even when you know what you’re doing, you get messed up if you’re black.” I know it got back to him.

MARSHALL: Well, I have heard, uh, some pret-